myositis a side effect of zocor?

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: I am also interested in Vit C therapy and am Happy to help. Just let me know. BTW - Here is an interesting link on Vit C:

*http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/statin.htm

And here is a copy/paste excerpt:

***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Vitamin C Lower's Cholesterol Naturally

The hot selling statins, such as Lipitor and Zocor, lower cholesterol by blocking the coenzyme HMG-CoA reductase. The first statin drugs were released in 1987, and the manufacturing and promotion of these drugs has grown into a huge business; statins are the most widely prescribed class of drugs in history.

In 1985, scientists made an important discovery. Ascorbic acid (Vitamin C) is the human body's natural HMG-CoA reductase inhibitor.[*] When vitamin C levels are low, the body compensates and manufactures more cholesterol; when levels are high, the vitamin inhibits HMG-CoA reductase, lowering cholesterol.

The problem with the artifical statin drugs has been identified. These drugs concurrently reduce circulating levels of ubiquinone, aka coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10) [*] and raise levels of the lipid Lp(a) [*] . A decline in CoQ10 -- attributed to artificial statins -- has been linked to muscle pain, muscle myopathy and congestive heart failure; [*] elevated Lp(a) is linked to the 70 percent higher probablity of heart attack or stroke [HOLY %^&%^*!!!!].

Vitamin C is Nature's Perfect Statin.

At the proper (high) dosage vitamin C lowers Lp(a), and it promotes the natural production of ubiquinone (CoQ10).

See:

Inhibition of HMG-CoA reductase activity by ascorbic acid
*http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/261/16/7127

***************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

Regards,

Brooks

[carbuffmom]

Hi Guys:

FYI: I used to take 6000 mg of Vit C ( 2000 mg 3 times a day). I had a cholesterol check after about 3 mos---reading of 252. My doctor freaked and said it was too much Vit C. I cut it to 2000 mg per day--new cholesterol reading of 298. Coincidence or not, I don't know. Have a good weekend. DEB

[Biologist]

Excellent! Thanks, Brooks.

Those sure were the missing links (so to speak)

And thanks for getting the spelling right for VC too. I thought something look fishy about my version of it.

And thanks for volunteering.

Good to see Big Phama busted again tonight (i.e., Oxycontin this time) for lying for profits and death. Don't expect to see it happen with statins though. Same crime but 100s of times the profits.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Thanks, Deb.

Good info.

Another thing to put on my list when I get the chance (in addition to reading Brook's links thoroughly) is to look into potential VC over load. There will be a lot of BS to sift through though -- that's for sure. I am taking at least 6,000 mg per day and have been for some time, and see no reason at this point not to continue. I have yet to see any convincing argument against it, but I'm sure, like in your case, plenty of "old doctor's tales" are bound to abound!

Connie, hang in there. I have no doubt your situation will get much better.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Brooks,

Having now read the hyperlinks, I detect a potentially problematic inconsistency that I have no explanation for at this time. I will give it some thought though and if you or anyone else has any ideas, please go for it. Here is the problem I find: the author says Vitamin C is a HMG-CoA reductase inhibitor. OK. So are statins. It is the inhibition of this reductase molecule that impedes the mevalonate pathway -- which in turn prevents both cholesterol production, CoQ10 production and other important production. So you see what I mean? Something is not adding up right. It is not clear how Vitamin C promotes CoQ10 when it serves as a means of preventing it. But again, I will give it some though and maybe do some more reading if I can find it. Maybe I just did not read it all carefully enough. Alternatively, it may simply be a bit too complicated a feedback system to reduce to such simple sentences/concepts for the typical reader. Regardless, this does not reduce my positive thinking about VC but as he says, it gets curiouser and curiouser.

Stumped for now. But perhaps not for long...

Also, it appears he may have already performed the experiment I had planned. Man! I would sure hope I would have a cleaner looking presentation of results than his chart showed. He was all over everywhere! It appears the "rebound effect" is in effect along with some consistently inconsistent supplementation! His test result were just not as impressive/persuasive as I would have liked to have seen, and his grounds for the molecular mechanisms of VC effects on CoQ10 were not at all clear. He might could have included a few more paragraphs of describing what's up on both counts. For instance, he does not tell us at each point on his graph what his immediate "history" of C supplementation was at that point in time. I am now less encouraged about meaningful test results for myself and others based on his work but will probably pursue it anyway.

For what it's worth, this is the first hyperlink I found on Google with the search phrase "Vitimin C toxicity":

*http://www.iscid.org/encyclopedia/Ascorbic_Acid

And here's a pertinent quote:

"Ascorbic acid toxicity in healthy humans
starts at about 18,000 mg. Very sick cancer
or influenza patients, however, do not show
toxicity until they take about a half-pound of
vitamin C."

Naturally I found others disputing this claim. I plan to continue at about the 6,000 grams per day rate for now.

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: Since my level of understanding can be easily over run by almost anyone with a scientific background, I must defer to your understanding and confusion. All I read was that the body REACTS to elevated on-board levels of Vit C by slowing the production of cholesterol; Vit C doesn't ACT to lower it (unlike Statins) - it NATURALLY happens. Everything else, as far as I could see, functioned without change, ie CoQ10 production.

Frankly, I am so out of my depth here I hesitate to voice an opinion with any real confidence. And yes, although it looked like the intent of the data presented was to show how VC, when taken on a regular basis, resulted in lower cholesterol, there were too many questions among the reported readings to allow (you or I) a completely confident assumption. Still, regardless of those questionable, intervening segments of time, Cholesterol went up when he was careless and down when he was attentive to his VC supplementation. I would very much liked to have seen CoQ10 readings in parallel though.

Anyway... when I sort the chaf from the wheat in my weak scientificly qualified conditon, I still think VC is a GOOD bet for lowering
cholesterol. !VC GOOD; STATIN BAD!

Whew! I feel as though I've flown around in circles and finally up my own backside.

I know what I mean. My problem is in convincing others I know what I mean.

Hopefully helpful,

Brooks

[Brian C.]

I take 8 to 9 grams of Magnesium Ascorbate daily, spread over 3 meals. I also take 9 grams cholestyramine resin and 0.5 gram Nicotinic Acid as slow release Niaspan. Under this regime my TC is 310 mg/dl with LDL-c at 250 mmg/l. I doubt that the Vit C has impacted my LDL one way or another in quantitative terms.

Brian.

[Biologist]

Brooks,

I think all of your comments, observations and "arguments" make good sense and are well informed.

Regarding VC versus statins, I believe VC is a natural and necessary *Regulator* where statins are an *Indiscriminate Obstructer*.

Major difference.

One good; one bad.

Biologist

[poohhel]

Connie: I have not had my cholestrol checked since stopping Vytorin on March 26, 2007 but in November of 2006 my numbers were:
Total 168 (yes, this really was my total)
HDL 55
LDL 97
Triglerids(?) 312

Prior to being prescribed Vytorin in November 2005; my numbers were
Total 285
HDL 38
LDL 179
Trig... 523

[cls]

My total cholesterol was 167 while on the Zocor, I don't know when that was, probably 6 to 9 months ago. Since I stopped the Zocor and had labs done one month later my total was 232 and right away my gp said I want you to take 5 mg of Crestor. The next day the pain that I still had, I believe it was from the Niacin and cinnamon, got full blown crazy after adding the Crestor, got as bad as when I was still on the Zocor.

I guess I am just to sensitive to anything in the line of statin- type meds or supplements. I guess until the docs understand about the way we feel when we are on the statins, we just have to say NO!!!!!!!!

By the way, my mother and I have the same general practicioner. She has been telling him about her pain in her upper arms, legs, and feet. She also has balance problems sheand had an emg that said she has neuropothy in her feet.

She also sees a cardiologist because she failed a pre-op ekg before she had breast cancer surgery. That's when they upped her Lipitor to 40 mg. I talked her into seeing a rheumalogist who is a younger woman. I want her to tell her about all her pains and weaknesses, maybe this doc will see that she might get better by a one-month trial vacation from Lipitor.

Connie

[catspajamas]

I don't understand why physicians don't do arterial, venus, carotid doppler, stress ekgs' etc before they determine a patient should be on statins...and I don't understand, if you have no cardiac risk ..say after the age of 75, why do they put elderly on statins...what good does it do"...and look at all the harm they can do....I would bet a lot of people that are diagnosed with dementia, altzheimers that are on statins..the statins are the cause or at the very least contribute to the mental decline......

[JL]

Just in case some of us didn't know this, statin drugs cause cancer. Bad stuff. When a drug depletes that much cholesterol and CoQ10 from the body, it leaves you with low immunity and highly susceptible to things like cancer. No matter what your doctor is telling you, remember, the doctors are controlled by the drug companies. They are told that if they don't give statins to their patients and the patients have a heart attack, THEY are going to be blamed. When it comes to my high cholesterol
(231 tc, 144 ldl) there is no way that I am listening to my doctor. NO WAY!!
Vit C has helped me increase my hdl (66) and lower my tryglycerides (107) and that is all that matters to me for now. I am sure my ldl will go down as soon as I stop eating grains and refined sugar products. Better to do a diet change any day then become a victim of statin drugs. JL