Constant ringing in your ears?

[Biologist]

"Biologtist, Is there any evidence that low
testosterone levels slows recovery time
from statin damage?"
--Craig

Craig, I think so. You nailed it. More later...

Biologist

[Brian C.]

Hmm, must ask for a testosterone test next time I see my endocrinologist....

Brian.

[Nuke]

Inspiring people to experiment with alcohol? Glad I could be of service.

Testosterone? hmm, I am not very knowledgable in the medical field, but I was told that cholesterol is used in the production of hormones. I will ask them to check mine next time I have blood work done. Is it a blood test?

What blows me away is the number of side effects, the complexity of the interactions with the different parts of the body, and the variety of reactions among users of statins. Yet the medical community has bought into them completely, almost without question. I think I was a bit naive when I decided to follow my doctor's recommendation. I do feel kind of lucky though because my problems are mild compared with a lot of people on this forum.

[Biologist]

Nuke, yes, it is a blood test. And yes, cholesterol is a precurser for testosterone. I think the popular abuse of statins (if not statins themselves) will come to be viewed as the biggest medical fraud of all time -- certainly of modern times.

Biologist

[bucho]

Regarding alcohol and statins, I have the same observations as Biologist and Nuke. In my final 6 months on zocor, I discovered that I no longer got that slight, pleasant "buzz" from a couple glasses of wine. In fact, now 16 months off zocor, that is still the case, much to my displeasure! I wondered at the time if I was becoming alcoholic, but my consumption level was not at the alcoholic level, nor was it increasing. But one sign of alcoholism is a waning response to alcohol -- no buzz -- as well as a need for alcohol just to feel normal. Well, on the statin I never felt normal, except maybe after a glass of wine.

Same as Biologist, with the passage of time off zocor, I have since determined without a doubt that even a modest amount of alcohol (just two glasses of wine per day, over a week or so) brings back some of my statin symptoms. This is a major disappointment. I'm now largely deprived of the cabernets, merlots, and zinfandels that used to be a very welcome accompaniment to dinner.

The question I would like to pose is, do statins lower one's resistance to becoming alcoholic? By that I do not mean causing a person's drinking to accelerate. Rather, I mean alcoholic in the literal sense, i.e., the brain becoming chemically dependent on alcohol to function normally, and subject to severe or life-threatening withdrawal symptoms within 6 hours to two days after a drink. (In this case, despite only modest amounts of drinking, thanks to the effect of the statin.) It is beginning to look that way, to the point that I can't even have what medical doctors claim is a healthy amount of red wine each day. Aaaaargh!

[bunnylady]

When I lay down at night I hear the t.v. going, or music playing and popping in my ears- I took Lipitor for 14 months and Crestor for 3 days- that's all it took- went off the stuff and the tinnutis began

I take Arches Tinnitus Formula and it has helped- it has clear instructions saying it takes several months of consistency in taking the vitamin to get results but one day I woke up and realized my ears aren't popping all the time- still hear the t.v. playing when its off but hopefully that will stop

Ginko Bilboa and Garlic are the two main ingredients of Arches tinnitus Formula- I also ordered their essential oils formula

[Biologist]

Interesting post, bucho. Good questions.

I read this recently and found it online about addiction just now. Whether it is worth reading or not, I don't know. The interesting parts to me are included below. My guess is that statins have caused a change in the receptors of "the pleasure centers" and that it may not be permanent, while long lasting. In the case of the author, apparently after many years, there has been a change in his brain away from addiction -- but the article is too much "behavior oriented" to be real applicable to statin users' issues -- even though the changes -- in both directions -- are probably reflected in brain physiology or chemistry. While unlikely, it is possible that we now manufacture more alcohol dehydrogenase which simply takes apart the alcohol before it hits the blood stream. Not likely, but as you will read below, it is possible:

*http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1640436-1,00.html

"Another area of focus for researchers involves the brain's reward system, powered largely by the neurotransmitter dopamine. Investigators are looking specifically at the family of dopamine receptors that populate nerve cells and bind to the compound. The hope is that if you can dampen the effect of the brain chemical that carries the pleasurable signal, you can loosen the drug's hold.

One particular group of dopamine receptors, for example, called D3, seems to multiply in the presence of cocaine, methamphetamine and nicotine, making it possible for more of the drug to enter and activate nerve cells. "Receptor density is thought to be an amplifier," says Frank Vocci, director of pharmacotherapies at NIDA. "[Chemically] blocking D3 interrupts an awful lot of the drugs' effects. It is probably the hottest target in modulating the reward system."

But just as there are two ways to stop a speeding car--by easing off the gas or hitting the brake pedal--there are two different possibilities for muting addiction. If dopamine receptors are the gas, the brain's own inhibitory systems act as the brakes. In addicts, this natural damping circuit, called GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid), appears to be faulty. Without a proper chemical check on excitatory messages set off by drugs, the brain never appreciates that it's been satiated.

__________________

That led researchers to wonder about other biological differences in the way men and women become addicted and, significantly, respond to treatments. Alcohol dependence is one very promising area. For years, researchers had documented the way female alcoholics tend to progress more rapidly to alcoholism than men. This telescoping effect, they now know, has a lot to do with the way women metabolize alcohol. Females are endowed with less alcohol dehydrogenase--the first enzyme in the stomach lining that starts to break down the ethanol in liquor--and less total body water than men. Together with estrogen, these factors have a net concentrating effect on the alcohol in the blood, giving women a more intense hit with each drink. The pleasure from that extreme high may be enough for some women to feel satisfied and therefore drink less. For others, the intense intoxication is so enjoyable that they try to duplicate the experience over and over.

But it's the brain, not the gut, that continues to get most of the attention, and one of the biggest reasons is technology. It was in 1985 that Volkow first began using PET scans to record trademark characteristics in the brains and nerve cells of chronic drug abusers, including blood flow, dopamine levels and glucose metabolism--a measure of how much energy is being used and where (and therefore a stand-in for figuring out which cells are at work). After the subjects had been abstinent a year, Volkow rescanned their brains and found that they had begun to return to their predrug state. Good news, certainly, but only as far as it goes.

_______________

While such relearning has not been studied formally in humans, Vocci believes it will work, on the basis of studies involving, of all things, phobias. It turns out that phobias and drugs exploit the same struggle between high and low circuits in the brain. People placed in a virtual-reality glass elevator and treated with the antibiotic D-cycloserine were better able to overcome their fear of heights than those without benefit of the drug. Says Vocci: "I never thought we would have drugs that affect cognition in such a specific way."

[Biologist]

For anyone (without a life these days ) who may find themselves in the same "testosterone book," here's the online book I'm currently reading:

*http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/bv.fcgi?call=bv.View..ShowTOC&rid=endocrin.TOC&depth=1

This was interesting too. I think I may be a candidate for such treatment and will be checking it out more:

*http://www.medem.com/medlb/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=zzzo7pdvdlc&sub_cat=57

After reading the following two pages, I take back what I said about "the myth" of the relationship between the two molecules. They are near identical and I read that DHEA can and does transform itself to testosterone at least under some circumstances -- but may also have its own separate functions in the body. Hopefully the book will be enlightening on some of the details. I have learned that there is a separate test available for both DHEA and DHEAs levels: a saliva test for about $40 and a blood test for about $100. If anyone else runs into the low testosterone issue on future testing, I hope you post about it. If privacy is an issue, maybe post anonymously (i.e., maybe sign up on the forum again with a separate "handle" / alias name?).

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHEA

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone

Biologist

[Biologist]

I wrote the following earlier in this thread:

"I drank six beers on an empty stomach.
The "hangover" is more equivalent to what
I would have expected with about half that
much alcohol on an empty stomach. It
would appear less buzz = less hangover to
some degree. My guess is that this is a
more common statin phenomenon than is
reported."

Several hours after posting I came to the conclusion that the hangover WAS NOT less than would be expected. So I take back the suggestion that less buzz may equal less of a hangover. Not so.

Also, to clearify, it is "alcohol resistence" (i.e., that of not feeling the effects) that I suspect to be under reported, not the issue about hangovers.

Biologist

[Nuke]

[quote="Biologist"]Several hours after posting I came to the conclusion that the hangover WAS NOT less than would be expected. So I take back the suggestion that less buzz may equal less of a hangover. Not so.

Also, to clearify, it is "alcohol resistence" (i.e., that of not feeling the effects) that I suspect to be under reported, not the issue about hangovers.

Biologist[/quote]That has been my experience also. Less fun, same hangover.

I am off the statins now for a couple of weeks, seeing if the tinnitus goes away. It hasn't yet. Keeping my fingers crossed.

But my alcohol enjoyment is back. I went to a Red Cross fundraiser over the weekend. It was a wine-tasting, horse de ovaries-eating, band-listening affair. Lot of fun. Enjoyed the wine very much. Ordered a couple of bottles of Shaky Bridge Pinot Noir 2003, from New Zealand, the furthest south wine country in the world. This was a full bodied, medium dry, spicy red with sweet berry flavor and a smoky aftertaste. Very nice.

[gotts1936]

Hello, everyone, my question is there a relationship between alcohol and statin drug side effects? For the last fifteen years, I always ended the work day with a good cigar and three or four beers, brandy coolers or wine. Than, my doctor put me on Lovastatin. Two months later, my doctor said the pain in my legs was due to a knee surgery that I had a month earlier.

One year and seven months later, he told me he thought my pain maybe due to a statin drug side effect. My question is was alcohol the problem or the statin drug?

[Darrell]

I don't drink or smoke, but a statin gave me leg pain.

[garystil]

I've had tinnitus since I was a kid, so I dont reckon I'll blame the statins.

I'm surprised that ANY forum contributors are still taking statins, but judging by this thread, some still do!

Cheers

[SusieO]

gotts I do not drink and took Lipitor. My muscle damage was from the pills not a beer.

[gotts1936]

Darrell and SusieO, thanks for your input. I was just wondering if alcohol could some how elevate a 20 mg daily statin drug level.
Garystil, I stopped taking lovastatin 6 months ago and still have sore and painful leg muscles. My doctor tried to put on simvastatin and I refused. It is obvious most doc's are unaware or do not care about statin drug side effects.