Follow-up visit to Dr. Langsjoen on Friday, July 20th

[cjbrooksjc]

All: One more 'heads-up' item from Dr. Langsjoen: My Q10 level (got the result today) was up to 3.8 from 3.2; that is still low (acceptable maintenance or supplemented level for Q10 is around 5.. Now, here's the interesting bit: my new, just rec'd supply of Q10, from Jarrow stipulates ubiquiNONE as the primary ingredient, and Dr Langsjoen told me today to order ubiquiNOL instead to get my levels up faster. I had gotten a short supply of that (ubiquinol) from Jarrow after the first visit but reordered ubiquiNONE unwittingly because it was on sale (typical Yank). The important bit is that UbiquiNOL is, according to Dr. Langsjoen, two to three times as effective is bringing up Q10 levels as UbiquiNONE. Today I am reordering Ubiquinol. Dr. L. points out there is nothing WRONG with the Ubiquinone, it's just not as efficacious. There, you can boost your intake of Ubiquinone or order Ubiquinol. It's only information, but information is one of the two most valuable things in life.

Uh... that little smiley face up there should be an 8; why it's being interpreted as a face is a mystery to me.

Regards,

John

[Biologist]

Perfect timing Brooks, I will be reordering today. Much thanks. I waited 'til Monday to remove the weekend from the delivery schedule. I hope you did fast delivery -- Hey, there's another question for Dr. Langsjoen sometime: Is this newer stuff more heat sensitive than the old? And was the old heat sensitive? (By some published accounts, it is.) I am giving more consideration to perhaps making a trip.

Here's some information: If you've not yet read it: If Kilmer McCully's book "The Heart Revolution" could be summed up in two letters it would be "B6." I will not reorder sublingual B12 any more as he make the case that most of us who eat right get plenty. It's B6 (and Folic Acid) that are the key to the book. And bananas are the best place to get it. Like all other vitamins, its better to get them in fresh non-pill form due to all the "helper molecules" included. I just got back from shopping. I do buy differently these days. Now time for a half-hour nap. What a bummer.

BTW, I don't much agree with you about Moore's motivations, while I'm sure he likes the money -- particularly since he gets it in an honest capitalist way. He's more a Ralph Nader type it seems to me. He's a good American. He speaks truth. Particularly truth to power. You have a chance to live longer and healthier because of people like him (and Nader). Also, time has proven him right with his former movie -- everything he predicted is now reality. I agree with you on "Information's Importance." Now here's the test: If the other most valuable thing in life is anything other than "Money," which I'm sure it is, then you ARE a true Republican -- not a NeoConner or worse including quite a few or most Establishment Democrats. By my way of thinking, anything much less than Senator Dr. Ron Paul these days, well there's just not an appropriate term for it that I've heard yet -- some so-called Republicans would eagerly vote for a third term of what we have now if they could get away with it. There should be asylum or prison time for that -- perhaps in the new huge detention centers being constructed in the South. Until learning more about him and Dr. Langsjoen, I was just about ready to give Texas back to Mexico (with apologies) and slide the new border fence up to the new northern location. (It's pretty much scheduled to be a scorching desert anyway inside about 25 years.) Those two and you makes three, that's a good start so I'll hold off judgment -- there are at least a few American there, I like fellow Americans. This capitalist (me) says massive unearned immoral profits need to be out of healthcare. (Not just by the pharmaceutical corporations but the Money Changes too -- the private insurance corporations.) Otherwise, for one, we get contrived diseases to be treated by poisonous pharmaceuticals to create real diseases to be treated by more of the same for the sole purpose of massive corporate profits. Parasitic predatory subversion. National treason.

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: 1. Before you invest in a trip. which I'm sure you would find comforting, encouraging and informative, see if there is a lab around you that does CoQ10 level testing. Excepting the CoQ10 test and heart scans (U-sound and EEG) intended to determine Statin-related heart muscle damage, Dr. L. is primarily a cardiologist in practice.

2. I think Moore has a bit of the bully in him and evades any fact that does not completely support his case. The topical content of his investigations is surely informative and useful, but I have reservations about his tactics, and I want to hear ALL the truth and not a version of it. I can't put Moore and Nader in the same pot; to my way of thinking, it isn't a homogeneous mixture. I do think they both serve our needs in the end.

3. The second most valuable thing is a bit harder to come by: LOVE. Provided you have food, shelter, and clothing - if you have enough LOVE you are happy; if you have enough INFORMATION you are secure. Isn't that what we all want in the end?

4. As a lifelong Republican I have to say: what we have now isn't Republicanism, it's Radicalism. I was sure, after Geroge's second year in the White House that he had, by leaving Texas, raised the average IQ in the entire state. After the Trent Lott fiasco, I became convinced he had, by leaving Tx. and moving to Wash., D.C., actually raised the IQ in BOTH places!! So, I am simply hoping we survive until 2008. As for giving the state back to Mexico hmmmm... I would vote for secession first; actually, that's not such a bad idea...

5. My personal feelings about gov't in general are summed up well by Milton and Rose Friedman in their book "Free to Choose" It's a book, a delightfully readable one, on economics. As for the current administration: Supreme Court Justice Brandeis put it quite well - in 1928, no less:

"Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberties by evil-minded rulers. The greater dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal - well-meaning, but without understanding" Now who does that sound like... 'nookyooler, pininchula, George & Co.'?

6. As to Pharma and Insurance Cos - I couldn't agree Moore. as for the CoQ10 heat thing - I had actually forgotten about that; still, I won't see him again until the fall when I get my levels retested and don't expect to speak to him again 'til then.


Regards,

Brooks

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: Of course I meant electro cardiogram and not encephalogram (EEG).

Brooks

[Biologist]

Brooks,

Good answers/comments.

Did you have any heart problems prior to or during your Zocor use? Chest pains, etc.? What physical limitations do you attribute to your heart? Could it be a (or the) reason for fatigue -- assuming that is also a complaint of yours? You have little pain in general, like me, is that right -- muscle or otherwise? It is interesting and disappointing that your CoQ10 levels were so low after all your efforts -- but the ending the Vitamin E supplementation appears to have helped. It will be interesting to see if more of the new stuff will make a difference in your levels. Does Dr. L foresee you always taking that amount of CoQ10 or just for some amount of recovery time? No big deal if it turns out to be perpetual, but knowing helps to understand the physiology of it all.

I cannot honestly say that I have any opinion on the efficacy of CoQ10 for the simple reason that I have never been without it from the time I ran into problems. I have faith that it must be helping as I do not do without it at all -- even when I laid off all supplements for several days.

I ordered a couple of bottles of 100 mg. at 60 tablets each, I believe.

"Electrocardiogram" noted. BTW, I meant "Money Changers" not "Money Changes"

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: No heart probs prior to Statins - I could out-anything most 30 yr olds. The heart thing presents as a pressure on my chest and in my throat, but it IS getting better and only becomes an irritant now if I push too hard. Fatigue, yes, but not anything like I had while taking Zocor. I have days, less and less often, when I just want to sleep in my recliner. Almost no pain now. I was remembering a time last September with my wife at the Ft Worth art museum when my elbows hurt so much just from the weight of my own arms, I would alternatively place one hand and then the other inside my shirt, resting on the button like a sling. This weekend I used a hatchet to remove a small tree in my daughter's yard; that would have incapacitated my arm for days just a few months ago, but not this time; I felt NO PAIN at all. CoQ10?... well, I ran out of the original Jarrow Ubiquinol about a month ago and began taking the ubiquiNONE I got from them (three bottles worth %#&@!), so, it is probably my fault - who knows what my level was a month ago under ubiquinol... The level I'm on (200mg Ubiquinol before each meal) is a maintenance level intended to address the Statin damage. I don't expect to be at that level forever, but I will probably take CoQ10 at a reduced level for the rest of my life, happily. I do wonder about one aspect of these supplements though... does the internal machinery responsible for producing these elements begin to grind to a halt if the diet is so rich in the thing they produce... does the mevalonate pathway return to its original capacity, or do the supplements cause a false reading and subsequently a false response? Do you know what I mean?

Regards,

Brooks

[Biologist]

Good question, Brooks, but my guess is that it would not be long affected if the supplementation was dropped off for some reason; but since production does tend to drop off with age anyway (per the literature), I am sure I will always take it. Same thing with ALC and ALA, and maybe a few others.

BTW, I do now take R-Alpha Lipoic Acid. I will post on why some other time before long.

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: I know what ALA is, but what is R-ALA? I have to be careful taking ALA - it gives me woofer heartburn in amounts over 300mg - it IS an acid; I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Brooks

[Biologist]

Brooks,

I am not endorsing this site or the info, but the info (which I skimmed) seemed to be accurate per my knowledge on the difference between the usable form (R) and the near-identical "junk form" which shows up in the synthetic processing of ALA at about 50/50 ratios. That mixture is just called ALA; it is 50% R though. The idea is that I do not want nonfunctioning molecules taking the place and competing with the Real McCoy, not that it does any damage to my knowledge. I just Googled "R-Lipoic Acid" to find the site. There are no doubt some more scientific sites to be found.

*http://www.advance-health.com/rlipoicacid.html

This site is more general maybe:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_lipoic_acid

Interesting on the heartburn. I can believe it. I tried drinking some poured in a glass of water. It did not dissolve very well and did not taste very good at all. Plus, about 10 minutes later I could still feel it burning my mouth and throat a little bit. So I agree, it is an acid!

ALC -- the powdered form is good. I just reordered the 75 grams in powdered form found here: *http://www.biochemicals.com/products.htm They don't show a picture of it for some reason but it comes in the same type bottles shown on the page. I am sold on this method as I can take the amount I want and it is just cooler for me for some irrational reason to have it as a powder and mix it. It may be a bit more pure that way -- not to knock the capsules though.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Brooks,

You write:

"... have to be careful taking ALA - it gives
me woofer heartburn in amounts over 300mg"
--Brooks

R-ALA may be the answer to the hearburn problem. You only have to take half as much to get the same effect from the pure R version. The S version in the mix is no help, but it is no less of an acid to cause stomach problems. The stuff is about twice as expensive though.

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: I'll likely stay with what I have. It seems to have as much ALA as I can handle, and, as usual, I ordered enough for a Mormon family disaster shelter. Thanks though.

Brooks

[eml256]

*http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/la/index.html

excellent site for information about vitamins and supplements--above is for ALA.

[Biologist]

I previously wrote the following in this thread:

"Here's some information, if you've not yet
read it: If Kilmer McCully's book "The Heart
Revolution" could be summed up in two
letters it would be "B6." I will not reorder
sublingual B12 any more as he make the
case that most of us who eat right get
plenty."

B12 is back on the menu for me after reading the following (which is more recent than Dr. McCully's book published in the year 2000).

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B12

"B12 deficiency is very common
Recent research indicates that B12 deficiency is
far more widespread than formerly believed. A
large study in the US found that 39 percent had
low values.[17] This study at Tufts University
used the B12 concentration 258 pmol/l (= 350 pg
/liter) as a criterion of "low level". However,
recent research has found that B12 deficiency
may occur at a much higher B12 concentration
(500-600 pg/l). On this basis Mitsuyama and
Kogoh [18]. proposed 550 pg/l, and Tiggelen
et al [19] proposed 600 pg/l. Against this
background, there are reasons to believe that
B12 deficiency is present in a far greater
proportion of the population than 39% as
reported by the Tufts University.

B12 deficiency is even more common in the
elderly [20]. This is because B12 absorption
decreases greatly in the presence of atrophic
gastritis, which is common in elderly.

B12 deficiency is common among vegetarians.
In vegans the risk is very high because
virtually none of their natural food sources
contain B12. One American study found blood
levels below normal in 92 % of vegans, 64 %
of lactovegetarians, 47 % of lacto-
ovovegetarians [21]. The study applied the old
normal values, so in reality a considerably
greater proportion may have been deficient."

Biologist

[Ray Holder]

I read in a BMJ letter recently that folic acid, taken to reduce homocysteine, can , in some very few cases tend to cause a cancer, but this is prevented from happening by taking enough Vit B12 in conjunction with it. I think the letter was on the subject of fortifying more cereal products with folic acid.

This is an added reason to keep vit B12 levels up, I believe a deficiency can lead to anaemia in the elderly, and consequent damage to the brain.

Ray

[poohhel]

Biologist or Brooks:
I was looking to order the Jarrow Q-Absorb Formula (iherb.com) when I saw a Jarrow Formula that is Carnitine+Co-Q10 Plus B5 & Lecithin... Have either of you tried this?

What are your thoughts regarding this combination? I was considering replacing my Co-Q10 and L-Carnitine supplements with this combination formula.

Wishes for a few days free from neuropathy and pain ... Helen

[cjbrooksjc]

Helen: I have not tried the formulation you mention, but considering the size of my Carnitine, Lecithin, and CoQ10 tabs now, I would envision a pill so big you'd have to eat it like an apple.

Odd isn't it that these Statin recovery-like formulations are being offered - there must be a fairly large demand, and so, a fairly large customer base. I wonder where the marketing data to support the manufacturing decisions is being collected and interpolated!? More grist for the mill...


Regards,

Brooks

[poohhel]

Hahaha...Brooks, I never thought of that... they are quite large. I think I may try this new formulation but it may be a bit, I still have a supply of the supplements already.

[bunnylady]

Does this doctor treat the symptoms of statin repercussions- if so, I'd like to visit him as I live in Texas- do you have contact info? I am also on prednisone and would like his help in getting off of it

[cjbrooksjc]

bunnylady: Here is the information you requested. Dr. Langsjoen understands Statin damage and is a CoQ10 advocate. He is a cardiologist, and, as such, tends to focus on cardio impact and not the broad range of symptoms covered by this forum. You may write or call for a clearer understanding of his usefulness in your particular case.

Regards,

Brooks



Peter H. Langsjoen, MD, FACC
Cardiovascular Diseases
Research in Biomedical Aspects of Coenzyme Q10
Alena Langsjoen, M.S.
Coenzyme Q10 Laboratory, Inc.
Tel (903) 595-3778, Fax (903) 595-4962
1107 Doctors Drive
Tyler, Texas 75701,USA