Mitochondrial Restoration

[cjbrooksjc]

Below are links to parts l and ll of an in-depth article on Mitochondrial Restoration. They are interesting and readable and provide a fairly complete list of Mitochondrial bionergetic enhancers (B vits, CoQ10, ALC, etc.) at the end of the article. This is intended to be the begining thread of a lucid rapproach to RESTORING Mitochondrial health; one of the most important issues arising from the impact of Statin useage. There are pictures; in color, for those who get bored reading.

Part l [http://www.vrp.com/art/868.asp]

Part ll [http://www.vrp.com/art/912.asp]

If I, or someone else, posted this link before, I apologize; I couldn't find it on the forum and I couldn't recall.

Regards,

Brooks

[Biologist]

Brooks,

Someone did post it before, but I am glad to see it again, and under its own thread. Good idea.

On the second hyperlink, the following are listed that I have not heard much about and do not take. Anyone have any experience with them?

The first one, Idebenone, is listed towards the top. If we are to assume they are listed in order of priority (obviously not by alphabetical order) then maybe it is particularly important?

Yep, it is a vitamin sales site, but they do appear to be citing legitimate studies. I will be in that direction this afternoon so I will stop at a Whole Foods store vitamin section and see if they have these three. Probably buy 'em.

__________________

Idebenone
Idebenone is a CoQ10 analog that, while sharing some of CoQ10s properties, offers unique mitochondrial-protective benefits of its own. Idebenone is a powerful mitochondrial free radical quencher that reduces the ever-increasing damage to mitochondrial DNA that occurs with age. Idebenone has also been shown to be more effective than CoQ10 in the electron transport chain. Studies show that when cellular oxygen levels are low—a condition that may occur periodically over a lifetime— idebenone is actually superior to CoQ10 for preventing free radical damage while helping cells maintain relatively normal ATP levels—a property that is especially beneficial to brain and heart cells that may be rapidly damaged during low ATP production due to poor tissue oxygenation. (2)


N-Acetyl Cysteine
As previously noted, a major cause of mitochondrial dysfunction is due to changes that take place in the respiratory chain where oxidative phosphorylation occurs (explained in detail in Vitamin Research News, Vol. 16 No. 11). A team of researchers in the Department of Biochemistry and Biophysics at the University of Kalyani in India studied the effects of N-Acetyl Cysteine (NAC) on key elements of the respiratory chain. (6) They administered NAC to mature (40 week-old) rats. After 20 weeks of treatment they found that the activities of Complex I, IV and V were significantly higher in the treated rats compared to the controls. NAC also helped to maintain levels of the important mitochondrial antioxidant, glutathione, as well as prevented cell death in in vitro studies. (7) In other in vitro studies, NAC protected cells from programmed cell death (PCD)—also known as apoptosis—by promoting oxidative phosphorylation, mitochondrial membrane integrity, and mitochondrial homeostasis.

Succinate
Succinate is a tricarboxylic acid (Krebs) cycle interwww.e that donates electrons directly to Complex II. Succinates have been widely used for their alleged ability to enhance athletic performance—especially in Russia. Dilman believed succinic acid was a non-specific cell receptor sensitizer. Several studies reported improvement in clinical conditions using six grams per day of sodium succinate. One patient with respiratory failure and a known mitochondrial defect of Complex I, IV, and V completely resolved on a regimen of 300 mg CoQ10 per day, and six grams of sodium succinate. (19) Another patient with Mitochondrial encephalomopathy, lactic acidosis, and stroke-like episodes (MELAS) improved dramatically when treated with six grams of sodium succinate alone. (20) I think the use of succinates is even more effective when a balance of several salts is used—especially combinations of magnesium and potassium.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Here's an update on my shopping:

The place I went to had never heard of Idebenone, I bought some N-Acetyl Cysteine ($10.69, 600 mg, 30 "chewable pills) and they did not carry Succinate.

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

biologist: I don't know what idebenone is or what N-Acetyl Cystine is either for that matter. Succinates are Succinic Acid derivitives. I get all my stuff from an internet source and they don't carry these items either. I have a health food store nearby and will try tomorrow to get some answers.

Brooks

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: Should have read all the topic responses. Thanks for the definitions.


Brooks

[Biologist]

Brooks,

Here is what Wikipedia has to say about Idebenone at the following URL:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idebenone

_____

"Idebenone (pronounced eye-deb-eh-known) is an organic compound of the quinone family and promoted commercially as a synthetic analog of Coenzyme Q10 (CoQ10).

Idebenone is claimed to have properties similar to CoQ10 in its antioxidant properties.[specify] CoQ10 is one of life's most essential biochemicals, hence its title "ubiquinone" (ubi=ubiquitous).

Idebenone is different from Coenzyme Q10 in one very important way. During a hypoxic (low oxygen) condition, CoQ10 can switch function from an anti-oxidizing to an auto-oxidizing process. This auto-oxidation rapidly produces free radicals which damage the tissues of the body.[verification needed]

Idebenone is said to perform the same functions as CoQ10 without the risk of an auto-oxidation reaction.{{verify source]}}

Idebenone is said to promote NGF (nerve growth factor) in the brain.[verification needed] It appears to reduce tinnitus (ringing in the ears).[verification needed] Idebenone has also been used in topical applications to treat wrinkles."
______

The website itself sells vitamins. You can stick "Idebenone" into their internal search engine found here to get more info on what they sell I guess.

*http://www.vrp.com/productsearch.asp?c=1173893382187&k=/index.asp&m=/includes/vrp.css&p=no&s=0

I have not had time to check it out. It is not out of the question that I may order some. Might do some more "research" on it first though.

Here are the Wikipedia entries on some the other supplement sited from your second hyperlink:

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetyl-L-Carnitine

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N-acetyl_cysteine

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succinate

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Lipoic_Acid

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: I ordered some of the idebedone. I hadn't heard the Hypoxia warning about CoQ10 before. Good to know. I HAD heard there was some safety question about high use levels of CoQ10. Anyway, looks like (initial impression) idebedone is a safer/better choice than CoQ10 for a number of reasons. (and I just ordered a boat-load of Q10 (&%%$#))

Regards,

Brooks

[Biologist]

Interesting, Brooks.

I may get some.

Hey, what are the safety questions thing about CoQ10? You and I are both taking about a gram a day. Is that too much?

Biologist

[carbuffmom]

I would also like to know of any negative side effects of CoQ10 as I take 1200 mg. per day. Thanks for all of your skillful investigations.
DEB

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist,carbuffmom: Link below is Mayo Clinic. Side effects are near the end of the report. Overexertion is discouraged (exercize) while on CoQ10.

*http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/coenzyme-q10/NS_patient-coenzymeq10

Regards, Brooks

[Biologist]

Thanks, Brooks.

That was real helpful.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Brooks,

I just spent over an hour reading up on Idebenone and think I will do it. I think I will take two 45 mg. pills per day, as apparently recommended. It looks like if I were willing to spend $240 I could get enough for half a year (90 mg./day) at about $1.33 per day on their quantity discount arrangement.

Any comment on this idea?

$240 is not much more than the cost of a visit to the doctor's office plus the lipid test -- not even counting the cost of the Zocor (much less the cost of its damage...)!

*http://antiaging-systems.net/brain.html#Idebenone

Biologist

[Biologist]

Ooops!

The amount here is 60 tablets per bottle, not 30 -- like the site I found above!

*http://www.vrp.com/det/8141.asp?c=1174015077546&k=/vrpsearch.asp&m=/includes/vrp.css&p=no&s=0

So it appears that this site is less expensive than even the quantity discount price per pill for the site I found.

Wonder what's up with this?

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: I agree with your assessment. If I hadn't loaded up on Q10, I would do the same thing. I don't know how the idebdnone price on this site compares with ARP, but I plan to give it a shot with the small amount I ordered; that's already a done deal. If it is effective, I'll order more.
Someone I respect told me once: "Every day you learn something new is a GOOD day"; TODAY was a good day. BTW: I know I keep misspelling idebenone; don't know why...must be the Statins.

Thanks,

Brooks

[Ray Holder]

This ibedenone subject is rather perplexing. The substance in the body is Coenzyme Q10, not ibedeneone, and thus it cannot replace the deficiency of Q10 if it is not that substance. As one of the names for Q10 is ubidecarenone, I suggest that ibedenone is a trade name made up from that word, the information which I have read seems more commercial than scientific. I did find a Far East manufacturer's site which claimed they were making a more readily absorbed form of Q10, but that appeared to have more to do with avoiding crystals in the product.

Fears about the oxidative possibilities of Q10 may be theoretical exagerrations of the way in which Q10 operates, it is a remarkable material, having the ability to transmit energy in the form of electron transfer, but also to have a reversible function with oxygen, removing it to prevent oxidation, but being able to give it back up to the point which needs it.

Mainstream medicine has always been slow to appreciate the value of Q10, large scale trials need funding, the drug companies are unwilling, to say the least, to give such funding, so small scale trials are the order of the day, and too little Q10 was used in some trials, in a half-hearted sort of way, to give any real significence to the results.

The Mayo page suggests that exercise intolerance in heart failure subjects taking Q10 was a Q10 problem, but their exercise intolerance before taking Q10 would have been much greater. Rashes can occur in some people, I know of one myself, and the stomach problems arising from using acid reducing tablets with Q10 are known among the site members. The reduction of sugar levels in diabetics is something medicine should make more use of as part of their treatment, the remarks about the benefits in diabetes show that the way in which it operates in respect to insulin production is not understood.

Ray

[cjbrooksjc]

Ray: I agree that much of what we tread on is untested, unknown ground. I do not intend to stop taking CoQ10. On the contrary, It has made a great difference in my condition; also, this (at least for me) uneducated approach to a working solution has a tempting behavior adjunct; I call it "I have a hammer and everything looks like a nail", and it can have you or I jumping from lifeboat to lifeboat thinking one is more bouyant than another. I am trying to avoid that, but at the same time I am willing to "take a taste" of something new to see what happens; I have no other (professional) options. Please don't think I am recommending a blanket solution or a replacement suppliment for CoQ10. I forget I have to be SOOO CAREFUL when I post my opinions on this site to identify myself as a diletante, not an apostle. Thanks for the reminder.

Regards,

Brooks

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist, Ray: Following anomalies around the net, I found this oddity. It's a forum of atheletes using suppliments to bolster their performance. There is a lot of traffic about Acetyl L Carnitine, PALC, Idebedone, and others. I did find the conversations light, interesting, but not conclusive. Just more grist... but, there ARE more references to oxidation of Q10 under stress (no mention of hypoxia), and I think it prudent to farm all sources.

*http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/30353-alcar-ala.html

Regards,

Brooks

[Biologist]

Brooks,

I signed on to respond to this thread I'm posting in now, but spent all my time here instead:

http://www.spacedoc.net/board/viewtopic.php?p=3670#3670

Hopefully I will get a chance later on this weekend to post here too.

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Biologist: As I said, the site is primarily interesting; not conclusive. BTW, Got my first shipment of idebenone today. [Honestlly, I am begining to feel like Dr. Jeckle.] At any rate, I'll post the results if any are noticable, good or bad.

Brooks

[Biologist]

Brooks,

You may have already read these, but just in case...

And there are likely others who will be interested. The first two include information on a study(s) on Idebenone which I think may be significant. The other two are interesting.

*http://www.vrp.com/art/511.asp?c=1174178852953&k=/vrpsearch.asp&m=/includes/vrp.css&p=no&s=0

*http://www.vrp.com/art/486.asp?c=1174178852953&k=/vrpsearch.asp&m=/includes/vrp.css&p=no&s=0

*http://www.vrp.com/art/1851.asp?c=1174178852953&k=/vrpsearch.asp&m=/includes/vrp.css&p=no&s=0

*http://www.vrp.com/art/1899.asp?c=1174178852953&k=/vrpsearch.asp&m=/includes/vrp.css&p=no&s=0

Note that, according to one of the studies, it takes three weeks before there were any documentable changes (and the patients were rats!), so don't be worried if there is no immediate improvement. And changes may be a bit too subtle to definitively notice anyway you look at it. We'll see. I ordered a six month's supply at 90 mg per day (two tablets) which should be here by the middle of next week.

Actually I have not had a good chance to read the anabolicminds.com forum thread discussion yet, but I will tonight or tomorrow. It looked interesting.

Biologist