Glad to have found you...

[bajatrvlr]

I can’t tell you folks how happy I am to have found this site…. Ever since the DIT board went down, I’ve been having withdrawals. All the other boards seemed flawed in some way or another. I’m hoping that other DIT regulars have found you guys.

Bob

[Cat Mom2]

Welcome to the statin forum. Would you like to tell us about your experience on the drug?

[bajatrvlr]

My experience…. Well, that’s a long tale. The abbreviated version is I started on Zocor in the early 90’s after bypass surgery and was switched to Lipitor about `97. After a little over a year, I started to have weakness in my back and developed “Tennis Elbow”. The only other medication I was taking this whole time was aspirin. I had told my Doc about all the problems I was having and he did a CK test and it was normal. I started looking into the whole thing and discovered the DIT board and that’s when my education started. Thanks to a bunch of folks going through the same thing I made a decision to get myself out of the statin game over the objections of all the Docs.
Which brings me to the present. I see a very aware Cardiologist in the Integrative Medical Dept in a well-known facility. Although she’s aware of the issues with statins, she’s encouraged me to use Red Yeast Rice at about 2400mg per day. I’m only able to handle 1200mg or I start the whole statin thing again. Recently, I was talked into Zetia and Niacin, which brings me here. I developed blood sugar issues, which put me on Metformin along with some pretty hefty depression. All since the Zetia and niacin. I was searching for a relationship between Zetia and depression when I found this board. I stopped both Zetia and niacin and my glucose has normalized. We’ll see how the depression goes. I’m thinking about cutting out the Red Yeast Rice or at least cutting it in half in the near future.
So, there you have it.

[catspajamas]

My blood sugar went up when I was on zetia...As for the Red Yeast Rice..I am afraid to take that since I had problems with statins in general...red yeast rice is a natural statin I understand.....I am doing well on fish oil, non flushable niacin and policosanol...I am not sure if the policosanol is helping . There has been conflicting reports on it...A study in denmark said policosanol is good...I have brought all my numbers down to within normal ranges so will stick with this regime...A old GP told me Niacin was the way they controlled choles in the "olden days"...He also said to cut sugar out of my diet....it stands to reason as all the "goodies" that are sweet also have trans fats and fat in them.....I often think of my great grandmother who lived to be 92..They lived on a farm...ate their own eggs and bacon for breakfast every morning...raw fried potatoes in lard of all things...I am wondering if its the modern "processed " shortenings, butter etc that is the problem.....

[Darrell]

My grandmother lived to a similar age after using lard, etc. all her life. But she lived a very physically demanding life -- pumping her water and washing clothes by hand, walking to town regularly, etc. well into her 70's before my parents insisted the she accept a water pump, a washing machine, and a flush toilet. She managed a large and bountiful vegetable garden completely with hand tools. I'm sure that lard turned into energy instead of artery lining.

[Cat Mom2]

Author Message
Darrell Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:58 pm Post subject:

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"My grandmother lived to a similar age after using lard, etc. all her life. But she lived a very physically demanding life -- pumping her water and washing clothes by hand, walking to town regularly, etc. well into her 70's before my parents insisted the she accept a water pump, a washing machine, and a flush toilet. She managed a large and bountiful vegetable garden completely with hand tools. I'm sure that lard turned into energy instead of artery lining. "


catspajamas


I was thinking about my Grandmother yesterday. They had bacon EVERY morning and she saved the bacon grease and ate it with her biscuit, dip and eat. Her biscuits, made with LARD and dripping in real butter. Butter and sugar went in everything she cooked. Everything was fried in hog lard and she lived to the age of 90 something and her heart was in great shape. Grand Daddy lived to 85 and he had a good heart. They both had a hard time getting around, grand Daddy was bedridden and skinny as a rail. Grandma had some sort of leg probelm.

My own Mom LOVED that fat back and that was her most favorite thing to eat. She also ate a ton of cheese and she also loaded her biscuits with butter. Towards the end of her life, we had to entice her to eat and a lot of days all she would eat was sweets... Her cholesterol ran in the 360 range for years. Her heart was in good shape, unfortunally, she had colon/rectal cancer and died at the age of 81.

Makes you wonder don't it?

[bajatrvlr]

I do believe that there in lies the difference with this generation…. We have a relatively luxurious array of foods to eat coupled with the most sedentary of lifestyles. The car is probably the greatest culprit, why walk? So, instead of fueling the fire for the rigors of life, we exercise to try to burn up the unused calories in our systems. Plus add to that our corn based food supply (omega 6’s), we’re doomed…

[sos_group_owner]

Hi All... We're not all doomed... we just need an 'attitude' adjustment... about what really is a 'healthy' diet. I can tell you what it's NOT... the low fat (especially low in saturated fat) - low cholesterol diet that's been (literally) shoved down our throats for the past 40+ years.

It's all the processes foods that have replaced whole, natural foods. All flours used to be 'whole grains', not milled into a flour that the only benefit is the vitamins added back to the flour; we ate real butter churned from healthy free range cows; ate fresh vegetables grown in soil that contained essential minerals, and yes, whole eggs from healthy chickens.

The low fat low cholesterol diet has taught everyone to eat high carb, which is the primary cause of elevated triglycerides. A diet low in saturated fat causes low (good) HDL cholesterol. Our numbers are all our of whack due to a diet that is anything BUT healthy, and YET, recommended by AHA and the majority of doctors.

Lowering our cholesterol just manipulates the numbers, makes our doctor(s) happy, but does not solve the underlying cause(s).

I'll he the first one to admit that eating a 'real' healthy diet is expensive, but I feel our health is worth it. They (the food industry and cronies) can take their skim milk, fake butter, trans fat laden high carb products, skinless /tasteless food and put it where the sun don't shine.

I choose 'real' food.

Just my 2 cents for 2day,
Fran

[Cat Mom2]

I agree with you Fran! How many years did they lable stuff "Fat FREE" then you read the lable and it had Hydrogenated & Partially Hydrogenated Oils... And the government and "health experts" allowed this for many, many years knowing what it was doing to us. I had a nutrition/dietition warn me back in the 80's to read the lables back then and look for this... if it had it listed, aviod it.... so they KNEW that long ago!

.... and these are the people that are deciding for us what is healthy for us TODAY? Look what they have done to us and are still doing to us.

[adec]

I think we can all agree that the current cholesterol formula is completely outmoded based on cutting-edge science. But that should be no reason to definitively dismiss every cholesterol factor and/or theory, in absence of a more correct formula, in light of simple moderation even. This starkly opposed contrarian mode of action has the potential to be just as disadvantageous. In my opinion, moderation (a balanced diet) will always be the key.

As has been stated, we now know LDL isn't as much a threat as in its oxidized form. But more importantly, Lipoprotein (a,) a major component of LDL, might now be considered an even bigger threat to cardiovascular health... perhaps the biggest. Lipoprotein (a) is basically a double bag of fat, encased in a sticky protein called apoprotein(a). Once in our vessels, Lp (a) acts much like an adhesive, also creating blockage and inflammation. And the most effective way to lower Lp (a) is not through the clinical use of statins, but simple niacin and vitamin C supplementation.

However, there's also a caveat about mindless fat consumption. Too much can tie-up our bodies' metabolism, thus impairing the ability to maintain levels of valuable nutrients and vitamins, such as C and B3. This in-turn would be a great hindrance to lowering Lp (a.) For this reason alone, I believe very strongly in moderating iffy saturated fats, and substituting with good fats, such as monounsaturated and Omega 3s.

Our diets already contain an abundance of saturated fats, Omega 6s, and sugars, and so few polyunsaturated Omega 3 fats. The very inflammation-inducing prostaglandins created by excess saturated fats are somewhat decreased by Omega 3 consumption. A diet high in saturated fats might also increase insulin dependence.

Of course, eliminating ALL hydrogenated oils and trans-fats from your diet is a no-brainer. Otherwise, I wish it was as clear-cut as either side is making it appear. The body is a complex organism, and our understanding is limited to the point of almost being simplistic. And there isn't a single magic bullet.

[cjbrooksjc]

Catspajamas, Darrell, CatMom2, etc.
Go to [http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html]
You will look at Lard in a different way, and you may never use vegetable oil again.

Brooks

[Darrell]

Bad address -- can't get there!

[Brian C.]

The server is down but the article is cached here :

[http://cc.msnscache.com/cache.aspx?q=5978681551243&lang=en-US&mkt=en-US&FORM=CVRE]


Brian.

[adec]

I probably trust the Weston A. Price Foundation about as much as PETA. I also take most of what they publish with a grain of salt. I neither soundly dismiss or warmly embrace their message. Although, I believe there are just as many rebuttals to their articles, and Weston Price himself -- including a sort of repudiation of Enig and Fallon's stance on "conola" over at Thincs.org. And that's my biggest problem with Weston Price, they seem to keep such stanch editorial control, while seemingly never allowing for contrary or dissenting opinion or study.

But what I really question though are their use of bold definitive statements, and the employment of selective science. While anyone seriously researching nutritional science knows it's a complex subject with many still unknown variables. I just hope for the sake of anyone following some of this dogma that it eventually turns out to be factually correct. Certainly their advice would be even easier to believe for anyone rebelling against a restrictive low cholesterol diet. And someone suffering from statin damage could be even more susceptible to their line of thought, looking for any sort of alternative.

I personally recommend obviously avoiding hydrogenated fats, moderating saturated fats, and finding good polyunsaturated alternatives, but especially monounsaturated alternatives, yes such as canola and olive oil. Saturated fat isn't the bad guy. But we should really be focusing more on moderating between a healthy ratio of fats. Too many people are eating way too many saturated fats, and not enough monounsaturated fats and essential fatty acids such as Omega 3. Just like doctors should be ultimately more concerned with the ratio between LDL and HDL, rather than some arbitrary total cholesterol number.