Dr. Graveline's Twelve Supplements

[cjbrooksjc]

In the most recent Spacedoc NL, Dr. Graveline mentioned twelve supplements that seem to be helping him. In a linked passage you will find the following explanation:

"The rationale for use and dosage of each are discussed in the mitochonrial mutations chapter of my forthcoming book the Statin Damage Crisis. Everyone is different and everyone's needs are different."

Brooks

[Dee]

So as of now, we don't know what the 12 supplements are?

[cjbrooksjc]

Dee: No, we don't. I think what he is saying here is HIS regimen, due to HIS particular set of symptoms may be different than yours or mine. At any rate the book will have the detail. I doubt he is taking anything we are not unless it is something specifically for MD, with which I believe he's been diagnosed.

Brooks

[Dee]

Brooks,

He has be DX with ALS, if I recall correctly. It will be interesting to see what the 12 things are, we have probably taken all of them and more.

Whatever they are, I know I haven't taken them all at the same time, which may be an answer for at least some of us. I think my issues are partly mitrochondrial related, partly nerve related, and who knows what else.

At this point, I am willing to try just about anything.

[cjbrooksjc]

Dee: Right you are - ALS; I couldn't remember.

I agree it would be good to know precisely what the twelve supplements are, but a few bucks for the book is a small return on his investment to date, and I'm quite willing to pony up as I'm sure you are. As you say, I'm sure we have taken them all at one time or another.

I'm sure my issues are some sort of statin-induced mitochondrial dysfunction. What frustrates me most are the 'good' days when I feel 'not well but much better'. These days make me think there is something I am doing ON OCCASION that makes this problem more bearable, and THAT is the formulation I would like to have in my hands. That, and a firm understanding of how this happened - the causes and avoidances.

Best,

Brooks

[Brian C.]

My current hypothesis is that our ups and downs are due to the molecules of the drug stored in our tissues and bones and that maybe, just maybe, if we can rid ourselves of these traces our recuperation will be less chaotic.

To test this hypothesis I will be using FIR (Far Infra Red) and other means to eliminate toxins from my body.

Brian.

[cjbrooksjc]

Brian: I'm very interested in knowing when you begin FIR therapy and how the infrared works.

Best,

Brooks

[Dee]

Brooks,

I do plan on buying the book, after all Doc has been very good to us, sponsoring this site and forum. I wish we could push his book to the best sellers list somehow.

I don't know what I would do with out all the folks that post here, I have learned 10,000% more than I could from the doctors around here.

Dee

[cjbrooksjc]

Dee: This site and the internet have been invaluable to me as well. No fact can hide in comfort any longer, and I feel it is just a matter of time before we will feel justified in our efforts to address and fix this problem.

[ironic]

I think Dr Graveline covers most of his ideas and supplements he is using on this page:

http://www.spacedoc.net/aging_mitochondrial_mutations

The book will cover each supplement in a little more detail and he gives his reasonings for the possible benefits. But he stresses that everyone is different and he points out that individually many of these supplements gave him little or no benefit.

He has no idea if one, two, three or all of the supplements are helping but he has made great progress these past few weeks and has made no other dietary or medicine changes or additions.

He considers either the supplements ( in whole or in part ) or an extremely powerful placebo effect to be what has caused these dramatic improvements.

[epfleger]

Dah!!!!

Give us those damn supplements that are helping you. Please don't make me by another book to remind me how fu**ed up I am. Hey Duane, what do you need for the info, a few dollars? I'll give you my damn credit card number.

[cjbrooksjc]

ED: I am nearly at a loss for words. Were it not for this man, I don't know what my current condition might be. A truly rash and uncalled for response.

[epfleger]

I hear what you're saying brooks, but I wonder why this lifeline of potential help is shrouded in mystery.

I think I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. Watching my family grow up around me while I am fogged out most of the time and too damn sore to participate. I am only 42 years old and feel like my life is ruined.

There is no question that this website is invaluable, as are all those who contribute vast amounts of time and information. So, allow me to apologize for my tone. Chalk it up to me having a really crappy month.

[ironic]

epfleger:

Not sure what prompted such an angry response.

The book is not out yet but the page I linked to is not that old and has 11 supplements listed so it would be reasonable to think that the majority are already listed. Did you click on the link? You can also use the site search function to read more and of course this forum.

I'm sure this page will be updated before long.
http://www.spacedoc.net/aging_mitochondrial_mutations
And as with all the information on the site, it is completely free for everyone.

I'll pass along your kind words and gratitude.

[epfleger]

I really am having a bad month. I missed that link. My bad. A thousand pardons to all.

[Biologist]

epfleger,

If I were you I would make sure testosterone and estradiol (E2) levels are in range. Getting this fixed helped me out A LOT. It was a full year after quiting statins and seeing only modest recovery that we hit on this. Results were nearly immediate. My levels were way below the range for testosterone (both total and free testosterone). The statins did it to me. This also can slow up recovery significantly. It was a major improvement for me in the fog department. You could do the testing yourself with ZRT or even VRP, I think. ZRT will interpret the results for you. Do thyroid testing at the same time. It will put you back about $400. Order the Combination Kit that has both blood spot testing and saliva testing as some things can not be done with saliva such as thyroid testing (T3, T4 & TSH) and Human Growth Hormone (which you should also check, mine was "non-existant", in the words of my new doctor). The pituitary gland is a high energy user and is involved in all these hormones I have mentioned. Low CoQ10 can damage the pituitary. That is apparently what happened to me.

There are a lot of testosterone receptors in the brain (and more in the heart than in any other organ) and Testosterone is an Androgen: It builds and repairs cells. (FYI: A healthy man has higher estrogen levels in the brain than a post menapausal woman -- and needs it, but it is VERY easy for the level to get too high and start taking the place of testosterone as well as signaling for production to be cut back.)

May be a wild goose chase for you, but maybe not. It was important to me. I think it is worth checking. You could just get your doctor to do the testing by drawing blood.

Prediction: If and when medicine wises up, many men over 40 and most men over 60 will be taking aromatase inhibitors to lower estrogen and raise testosterone levels.

Also, be sure you are taking ACETYL-L-Carnitine. The acetyl group attached to the molecule allows it to cross the blood brain barrier. And take Alpha Lipoic Acid as recommended on the bottle -- it easily passes. These are known to be very benefitial for the brain and compliment each other. There have been numerous studies on this.

Vinpocetine would be a good idea. It improves blood flow to the brain. More blood, more oxygen and nutrients. Much research on this too. The stuff is dirt cheap. I take it nearly every day.

I have been having a better than average month. Reading your posts takes me back to the bleak times a year ago. I have no doubt at all that things will improve for you. Stick with it. These are your trying times.

Biologist

[epfleger]

I stand humbled by the kindness of strangers.

Thanks so much Bio, brooks and ironic. I will get my hormone levels check straight away.

[cjbrooksjc]

Ed: It was a knee jerk response. BAD month for me as well actually.

Biologist is right on the money. I KNOW how this stuff can cause us to react and act out in unfamiliar (to those who know us) ways as I have been guilty of that myself. and I so appreciate your humility in the face of confrontation. I regret not having thought through my reaction though - compassion should be the first thing that comes to mind when dealing with fellow sufferers.

Best,

Brooks

[epfleger]

Hey Brooks,

No reason for you to apologize, but I very much appreciate your sentiment.

This poison certainly does manifest itself in bizarre ways, doesn't it?

This has turned into a regular love fest. My wife is already jealous

Cheers!

[Biologist]

epfleger,

Here is something to try. I'm pretty excited about it.

Here goes: The brain uses glucose for fuel almost exclusively (it can also use a metabolic "by-product" of fat matabolism, the molecules of which can cross the blood brain barrier, but to keep things simple, just think glucose. With the brain, glucose is where it's at. (Factoid: Unlike other tissues, brain cells do not need insulin to escort the glucose molecule across cell membranes.) The heart uses mainly fatty acids (i.e., fat) but can use carbs/glucose.

When you are having a bad episode, think of what you had for your last meal. Did it have some carbohydrates? You can by a bottle of glucose pills that diabetics use at K-Mart or any place. Take one and see if it clears up your "brain fog." I was having a problem this week, laid down a while and started thinking it through. I got up, took some glucose (two grams) and my problems started clearing up 10 minutes later with full effect after 30 minute or so. I was pretty excited about figuring it out and it worked. Then I ordered a pizza for some longer lasting carbs. My breakfast had been two eggs and ham and basically black coffee (a little powder-type creamer). So next time, I will know what to do. It may or may not work for you, but it is sure worth a try.

Theory: prior to statin damage, our bodies were able to more quickly and effecently convert fats and protein to glucose (i.e., neoglucogenisis). But now that system is not as good. Converting carbs to glucose is simple. That system should be fine.

Give it a try and report on how you do whether it works for you or not, but I have a hunch you are going to be in for a pleasant surprise.

Biologist