muscle pain

[Cathy]

Has anyone taken predesone for muscle pain? My new Dr. said this will sometimes "zap" the effects of lipitor right out. I have never heard of this before. He seemed quite knowlegable about the subject, which really surprised me. I know he said "sometimes" but its worth a try. I have had debilitating pain for the last 4 years. Just finished detoxing from fentanyl, that was worse than anything. Now am trying new things. All the imput from you will really help if you could post what you are doing. Oh yes, I was wondering about being hypothyroid. Have had several tests, all negitive. Dr. won't put me on medication. Any home remedies out there to try? Thanks......You guys are great!!!! I know more about statins then my last Drs because of you guys!!!!!!!!!

[Brian C.]

More marketing-based medicine I'm afraid Cathy. You need to establish the appropriate levels of CoEnzyme Q10, L-Carnitine (or Acety-L-Carnite) and perhaps D-Ribose to control the symptoms by giving your damaged mitochondria the support they need. I'm afraid we are years ahead of the average practitioner here when it comes to knowledge of appropriate treatment of statin-induced pathologies.

This knowledge has been hard won.

Brian.

[Biologist]

I'm not so sure about that, Brian. Prednisone may be an ace in the hole for some people. Need to research it well and be careful with it though as it is super powerful. We would be talking about very small dosages of it, it would seem to me. And perhaps for long periods of time. Basically this is a replacement for cortisol, an adrenal hormone. But it, like other derivatives of it, is much more powerful. And if I am not mistaken, it is now dirt cheap.

The conspiricay may work the other way around on this one -- there is NO money in it for Pharma, therefore it does not exist. Many doctors are leary of it maybe because Phama knows it may be so effective that it would cut into their bottom line -- therefore their puppets at state medical boards discourage its use. That is my suspicion, but I have not had a chance to research the issue YET.

I would cite Henry Lorin's book again here. (BTW, my new doctor said yesterday he thinks it is the best book he has ever read -- I was pleased -- he's the first doctor I've heard to date use the word "conspiricy" regarding Pharma medicine these days.) Remember, prednisone, like hydrocortisone (another imitation of cortisol) recruits cholesterol from other healthy cells to fight inflammation (to patch up beaten up cells and to form new ones) at the sites of injury, and that lessens pain and fixes stuff. Cholesterol is arguably the most important molecule in the body and it is hard to make. These drugs raise levels to fix problems -- but oddly, it is an HMG CoA Reductase Inhibitor for the liver, so one might need to up their dietary cholesterol levels while on it!). It is on my list to check out this year.

The adrenal glands and their hormones are interesting. I am looking forward to learning more. Her doctor may just know what he is talking about. Of course, what you say about the supplements is also true. FYI, I took your suggestion for higher levels of D-Ribose. About 15 to 20 grams per day. I think you may be onto something. We'll see. At that rate, it is pretty expensive though. Darrell had a good post recently and he probably nailed it. Harley's use of NADH may be for another similar issue.

Biologist

[harley2ride]

The Military docs said they could fix me up with steroids (prednazone) too. I tried a few different types, and all caused me to get much worse, very quickly. And it took me months to get over the added pain that they caused me..

[Biologist]

Not exactly a ringing endorsement. :)

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

When I was at my worst with this junk, the only thing that brought me relief was a steroid shot. Afterward I felt almost recovered - for a week or two - but then I was right back in the dumper. Any steroid, including prednisone, can have some debilitating effects if taken for an extended period. I don't think this is the answer, but that's only opinion. I haven't gotten a shot for about two years, and I don't think I will again.

Best,

Brooks

[cjbrooksjc]

Cathy: here is one internet site you should look to for side effect info re: prednisone; there are many others.

Don't include the ** when you link

**http://www.drugs.com/prednisone.html

[Brian C.]

Reading at the link Brooks has posted to drugs.com I picked up on the statement "Prednisone can weaken your immune system". Hmm, like any drug there seems to be a Russian Roulette element involved. I believe drugs (powerful synthesised molecular "magic bullets") should be a last resort and not be a part of long-term treatment for chronic conditions, only short-term measures in acute situations.

Re d-ribose. It has given me back my life, I discovered I'm quickly crippled if I don't take it in generous quantity. My propensity to angina brought on by emotion remains.

Brian.

[Brian C.]

I feel I should add a qualifier to my rather extreme statement above. There are exceptions, I believe lupus is one.


Brian.

[valgators]

I was recently given Prednisone (in the Dose Pak, 6 days of treatment)
for a very bad case of costochondritis. I had been dealing with that misery for four months and had seen 3 specialists who all failed to diagnose the condition. Once it was properly diagnosed, the prenisone knocked it out. Talk about muscles hurting, ouch!

I would be very surprised if it had any effect on statin-caused problems. It is also a drug to use with caution. It can have very serious side effects and should not be used long-term except for very specific medical problems. At least that is what I have been told.

Good Luck. Valgators

[Biologist]

My post may have been extreme. The purpose of my post was to keep too much cold water from being splashed on Cathy's doctor's idea. Her doctor may have a good hunch based on his experience? I have no idea of the dosage and term of treatment he has in mind. And I have relatively little knowledge about prednisone and similar drugs except to know a few people who have been on them (including my mother) and a little bit of reading about them. And side effects, particularly at high dosages over time, are certainly a concern. I am more interested in small dosages, but this would not be as impressive for immediate pain relief. It would seem to me that she should have all her markers for inflammation checked first. If they are very high such a treatment makes more sense to me.

Cathy mentioned in her first post:

"I have had debilitating pain for the last 4 years."

Chronic illness can stress out the adrenals. Long term support (e.g., a year or longer) may be necessary to allow the adrenals to repair if she may be looking at adrenal fatigue. Not enough cortisol (i.e., a result of adrenal fatigue) can be a problem regarding inflammation and pain.

Cholesterol levels may test high at first as cholesterol is liberated into the system from other cells. Over time, it eats up the existing supply as cortisol (and I assume it's synthetic derivatives like prednesone) suppress endogenous production (i.e., in the liver, and maybe cells elsewhere) of cholesterol. Lack of cholesterol after a period of time may be the reason for the side effects over time, therefore, I was not kidding in suggesting that dietary cholesterol may need to be increased over time (even in this case, however, the drug -- particularly at high dosages -- may impede the absorption of cholesterol into the cells). Cortisol may be cutting off cholesterol production to save energy as it is "expensive to make". The body may assume short term issues rather than chronic such that short term lack of production merely increases available energy for the temporarily sick person. Just some ideas.

Biologist

[Brian C.]

You have good ideas Biologist and we are living on a wavefront of new knowledge. One thing for sure, the present model of medical practice will not survive indefinitely.


Brian.

[cjbrooksjc]

Anything that can relieve our symptoms should be considered, even steroids, but Biologist is right on the money: they inhibit your body's immune response to infection and act as a CoA reductase inhibitor in the liver at the same time they are using your current supply of cholesterol to provide the anti-inflammatory response to ease your pain... HOUSTON, WE HAVE A PROBLEM! Steroid use needs to be managed closely. As we all know by now - diet is minimally responsible for elevated cholesterol levels and dietary restriction has little impact them... almost ALL of your body's cholesterol is manufactured by the liver. If the lipid numbers are up they are probably up because the body has, using its wonderful system of self-preservation, calculated a need for more cholesterol.

Brooks

[Darrell]

[i]If the lipid numbers are up they are probably up because the body has, using its wonderful system of self-preservation, calculated a need for more cholesterol.[/i]
This is a great truth. I wish I had known it four years ago.