TOTALLT CONFUSED ABOUT STATINS!

[tchrmgr]

I've read a lot of posts here. My cholesterol is very, very high. I had a terrible reaction to several of the statin drugs I was put on. Now my doctor wants to try Zetia but I've read the posts on that too!!. SO IF I CAN'T TAKE STATINS, ZETIA OR ANY OF THESE, WHAT AM I GOING TO DO? I even tried cinnamon until I found out that it was basically just a statin drug. My cholesterol levels are hereditary. So is heart disease in my family. I'm scared. What am I going to do. (56 y/o white female).
THANKS TO ANYONE WHO CAN OFFER SOME HELP!

[Biologist]

Do you or others in your family have any other risk factors including high blood pressure or smoking?

Biologist

[tchrmgr]

To answer your question, both my parents are still alive, in the early 80's, and have high blood pressure. My father also has had a host of problems including alzheimer's. They are both on statin drugs, as are my two sisters. No one has had any problems with the drugs except me.

[Brian C.]

I lived in fear with exactly the same problems for 20 years. I was on statins for 17 of those years (plus cholestyramine for much of that time too), full 80mg doses of Lipitor towards the end. Thanks to what I have learned here and through self-education I have been statin-free for the last 18 months and free of worr! I'm content to keep my level in the high normal range (300 - 350) to keep the xanthomas at bay and to this end I am taking 500mg Niaspan, 3 tablespoonfuls of alfalfa (for saponins), 1g Krill Oil and 8 mg astaxanthin. To keep my arteries clear I have been having chelation therapy and in past months have now added Jarrow MK-7 (menaquinone, Vitamin K2) and serraptase (an enzyme). To counter inflammation I follow the Paulin/Rath protocol of Vit C, l-lysine and l-proline plus Solgar Homocysteine Modulator. It's a big monthly expenditure but I consider it the best of investments.

I'm afraid medicine is marketing-driven and consequently very, very few doctors understand the incapacitating nature of statins and the much, much safer alternatives for those of us with lipid imbalances & CHD.

I very much enjoy eggs fried in palm oil every morning

Welcome to our School


Brian.

[cjbrooksjc]

tchmgr: If you must lower your lipids try Policosanol (sp?). I have ordered some but not received it. Do a search on this site for that term and Google it. Someone here (I can't recall who) has had good results with it. It is NOT a statin.

Best,

Brooks

[Biologist]

High blood pressure & statins on the one hand, and a diagnosis of Alzheimer's on the other, in the same patient, is unusual to my understanding. I would suspect a misdiagnosis regarding the Alzheimer's, where it is more likely vascular dementia (which does occure along with hypertension and hyperlipidemia). If your father does have Alzheimer's, statins would be expected to make it worse. The major study indicating statins help Alzheimer's patients was debunked some years ago -- while many physicians probably never got the word or choose not to believe it. The same data, analized correctly, showed just the opposite. But a lot of money was made on the deal for years -- and a lot of unnecessary deaths accumulated.

You did not say whether you are a smoker or have high blood pressure, did you?

I would take Brian's advice. I have also been reading on EDTA cheleation therapy a bit. A five year study, finally to have been done by the NIH, I believe it was, is due to report results this year per a book by Dr. Sinatra I just finished which was written a few years ago. Be on the look out for the results. On the other hand, if they show EDTA to be helpful, you may need to look HARD for the results. Several lobbies, including some cardiologists, will be looking to keep it under wraps. Dr. Sinatra says that is one of the groups that has been bad mouthing the therapy as it would threaten incomes.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Brooks,

What does Dr. L. say about your cholesterol levels? What are your levels? Mine, since I quite Zocor, are the best they have ever been. They are in the "normal range." (Actually they were always well within a normal healthy range based on the real science, but now are even in the acceptable range based on a statinator's brainwashed science).

tchrmgr,

Who says your numbers are "very, very high"? What are your numbers? Also, who says there is heart disease in your family? I was asked eight years ago if there was heart disease in my famly. I thought a bit and said, "Yes, my grandfather died of a heart attack."

Let me "paraphrase" the response I got while my test results were being examined while i was questioned:

"Well Now, there you go!! Let's start you out on excercise and diet changes right away, unless, of course, you want to just skip that part of the conjob since the exercise does basically nothing and the diet we are going to give you -- the typical low fat, high carb diet we all recommend -- will actually INCREASE your cholesterol numbers and make your overall colesterol profile worse. What ya say? Want to just skip that BS? Good, let's start you off on 20 mg of Lipitor. You're healthy as an ox. You should be able to take it just fine and then we'll double it the next time you come in because with the number of eggs you eat, your numbers will not budge one bit regardless of what the Lipitor will do in cutting your own cholestrol production!"

Now keep in mind that I was NEVER asked at what age he died of a heart attack. The science says that this is a meaningful indicator for others in the family if someone died at age 50 or below! (Sounds like your parents don't quite qualify very well on that count.) It makes me wonder if they had known he was 106 years of age at the time he died whether that might have made any difference to them? Probably not. They heard what they wanted hear, right? Would it have also made any difference if they had known that he was a heavy cigar smoker since the time he was 14? Who knows. Probably not. Without the cigars, he might have still died early with a heart attack at age 125? Who knows.

I hope I have made the point. Now for the real facts that are not quite so mindnumbing. I have no idea when he started smoking cigars. I never saw him without one. I will ask my dad if he knows. And he did not die at 106, it was 79. He was in excellent health and worked a full day that day in a suit and tie, came home, took a nap and never woke up. Now that I think about it, it may not have even been a heart attack. Who knows. That was what was put on his death certificate. Actually it would be just as likely that it was a stroke. I do not know if an autopsy was done. Another question for my parents. But consider this: that was in 1972. Thirty-six years ago. My guess is that he lived LONGER than the average man at that time, and probably outlived my doctor's dad's father. (I am about five years older than my doctor.) My doctor is not on statins. I plan to put him on them though. What? That sounds confusing? It shouldn't. After all, who is the doctor? Him or me? I have lower cholesterol numbers from being a member of this board for two years than I ever had under his care with 40 mg of Zocor per day. See what I mean? Looks like he and his patients need to be seeing me, not him. See what I mean? He'll understand that, right? So I plan to start him off at 20 mg of Lipitor, but it will likely be going up, I'm sure. Just got a feeling about that. (I have a diet for him too.) But like I did, he is to keep up his heavy aerobic work outs. He is a marathon runner. I was more into two mile "sprints" at the time of my melt down. This prescription of mine will save lives. Particularly when, as an experiment, I put him on doxycycline for two weeks. Once he gets the picture, he can tell other doctors. And they can learn from him. And more people will not only live longer, they will have a higher quality of life while they are at it. That's just me, I guess. Always looking out for others.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Another couple of comments:

Eggs are still a major part of my diet and I plan to increase their number. There is a study where people consumed 35 eggs per day over a long period of time, and their cholesterol numbers did not go up. Eggs are very healthful for numerous reasons.

I believe I probably developed a degree of heart failure from stains, vigerous exercise and an antibiotic (which is not listed as being a problem with statins). That would best explain the fatigue that never quite goes away, and the fact that doing Dr. Sinatra's recommendations for heart failure improves the situation. The treatment may have provided the diagnosis. Dystolic dysfunction; stiff heart; mitochondrial cytopathy. I hope I'm wrong. We'll see. Is that amazing, or what? Completely healthy, lettered in cross country and wrestling in high school and always active, go to the doctor to stay that way and come away with heart failure.

I will likely travel to Texas to see Brook's cardiologist before long or see if he has someone to recommend closer. Maybe I'm wrong. Hope so. We'll see.

Biologist

[tchrmgr]

Well, now I'm really confused. Biologist - I don't always follow your train of reasonging but, to answer the questions:

I have low to normal blood pressure; always have. Most of my life I've been 90 over 50! Since my hysterectomy I've gone up to around 100 over 70. Don't know why. Just lucky I guess.

I am 5 ft 1 in. tall and slightly overweight. I just lost 20 lbs on a high protein, low carb diet so I'm down to 150 and feel good.

I'm not taking any medications now, save for lots of supplements including a multi, 81 mg. baby aspirin, Co-Q10, calcium, etc.

I just had blood drawn to check my most recent cholesterol levels.

My last check, about a year ago, showed HDL 45, LDL 190, triglycerides 142, total cholesterol 263 and chol/hdlc ratio of 5.8. It's the LDL that I ws told was high.

I'll let you know what the studies show this time around.

As for the regimens mentioned, you'll have to elucidate. It's all Greek to me!

[Biologist]

tchrmgr,

Someone with your cholesterol numbers would need to have high blood pressure (which you clearly do not) at the same time to have any possibility of an elevated heart disease risk -- unless you are a smoker, and I am sure that you are not. That is info from Henry Lorin who studied all the pertinent medical literature. So you have no exta risk for heart disease. Once your total gets over 350 for a long period of time, you may want to look at the situation again, but probably not. Women have never been shown to benefit from statins -- they have, however, been shown to have their lives ruined by them at times.

In short, your doctor may be well meaning, but he is ignorant in this area of medicine. Actually, he is worse than ignorant, he is misinformed.

Relax. Stay off statins. And do some more research of the facts and that will make you confident that you are doing the right things for your health. Congratulations on losing the weight, and you went about it the right way. You may want to add some Krill oil or fish oil to your supplements. Quit worring. And forget about cholesterol.

If your doctor insists, its time to find a new doctor.

That is what all my research for the last two years have shown me.

Biologist

[tchrmgr]

Wow, thank you so much. Maybe I'll print this all out and take it to the doc. It's an HMO so I'm not surprised as my doc's lack of knowledge. He's young, but I actually like him. Maybe I can educate him! And you're right. I don't smoke and I do try to take care of myself. (I'm a teacher.) I have fish oil supplements but I hate taking them because they always seem to 'repeat' on me. By the way, wwhat is Krill Oil and where can I get some? Is it better than regular fish oil capsules? Thanks, again. You're doing a great community service to people.

[catamaran]

....lots of good advice here on addressing the various causes and control of high cholesterol (Which has little to do with atherosclerosis and its concomitant heart disease).

The problem is you're running 'round and 'round the mulberry bush, but never stopping to go under it to pick the berries.....the fundamental cause of atherosclerosis is absence of sufficient amounts of vitamin C in one's system to enable the body to maintain healthy arteries. One can take all the O3, aspirin, Vit E, Vit D, etc. but, unless plenty of Vit C is used atherosclerosis will progress.

Prevent heart disease?? Get enough supplemental vitamin C in the diet....end of story. (Ref: "Stopping America's #1 Killer" by Dr. Thomas Levy)

[Biologist]

Well said catamaran. I agree completely. Also, Vitamin C (and carnitine too) improve cholesterol profiles for most people.


tchrmgr,

Krill oil is from tiny cold water shrimp and is supposed to have lower levels of mercury and may be a slightly different active molecule which is considered to be better. You can find the stuff on the Internet almost everywhere. It is more expensive than fish oil and you take less of it. Is it worth it? I don't really know. I have been taking it for months but do not really know if it would be better to take more of the cheaper fish oil.

I cannot say which are the supplements that are keeping my numbers "right" as I take so many -- but something is working. It is not the levels themselves that are the issue, but rather what they say about what your body is needing due to less than perfect conditions. Real odd numbers just tell us we may not be at optimal homeostastis -- our lipid levels and C-reactive proteins, etc., are shifting to counter and address some problem. Forcing the indicator down (e.g., LDL) is like putting ice on a thermostate to try to get the room's temperature down. In fact, the tiny good that statins do are actually attributable to lowering NF Kappa Beta, which is a "transcription factor" that is activated to go into the nucleus of cells to force the DNA to make substances that can be bad for the body. Statins keep the molecule out of the nucleus (NF is short for "nuclear factor"). Their lowering of cholesterol is mainly a red herring. Some of the supplements I take also lower NF Kappa B activation, to my understanding -- and without lowering things that I do not want lowered such as CoQ10.


Biologist

[Biologist]

tchrmgr,

Please do post your new numbers when you get them. Your triglycerides will likely be lower this time if you are maintaining your weight loss the same way you took it off recently, by cutting back on the carbs. And your LDL may be lower from a year ago for the same reason (because you are lowering a source of inflamation by your diet and less LDL is needed to provide new unoxidized cholesterol to the tissues). Usually the specific diet suggested by doctors does just the opposite, but you beat the system. Mainstream medicine is still biased against the low carb diet. Did he suggest the low carb diet to you? If so, he is enlightened on that count. If he still wants to manipulate your numbers a bit with medication (which I am convinced is a poor idea), here is what I would do if I were you: Don't fill the prescription. Alter your numbers by natural, safe, effective means. If you like, I will list my supplements for you and also state which I believe are the most effective. When I think about it, I have probably overstated a bit the number of things I take. I have a lot of different supplements, but do not take all that many of them on any given day, and some not at all any more. (In fact, if you would just add several grams of Vit. C split up throughout the day, 1 or 2 grams of L-carnitine the same way, and 200 to 400 mg of alpha lipoic acid per day, and fish/krill oil, that should do it.) When he sees what you have done natually, safely and cheaply, you will have gone a long way towards his improvement as a doctor (unless his head explodes making a nasty mess in the office ); and you will be much better off.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Might want to add vitamin D to the list. And eggs are a good place to get vitamin E and in the right porportions of the various types of it. I would try to eat at least one per day. Supplementing vitamin E can be tricky as it competes with CoQ10 for delivery in the LDL molecule and cuts the delivery of the CoQ10, and also, as Fran has pointed out recently, getting the mix right in one pill is tough to do. There is no need to cut off dietary cholesterol as your body will be regulating that itself.

Biologist

[tchrmgr]

Thanks to all of you who posted here. I finally got some new test results. I've lost twenty-five pounds and have not changed anything else. Here are the results: Triglyceride: 72; total Chlesterol: 219; HDL: 48; LDL 150. This is quite a change from my earlier numbers and all I did was lose some weight! So what do you think?

Thanks!

[tchrmgr]

I forgot to mention that my weight loss was due to the Lindora Program (a southern calif. weight loss clinic). It's not as severe as Atkins but does restrict carbs and pushes proteins; Vitamin B-6 and B-12 shots are also part of the program. It's been difficult but I've managed to lose the 25 lbs. with another 25 to go. I seem to recall one of you mentioned that carbs are a cause of the inflammation and since I've greatly restricted them (and don't miss them anymore!) perhaps that's part of why my numbers this time around are so much better.

[cjbrooksjc]

Congratulations! Weight seems to be a BIG factor in many hi-cholesterol results. Keep it up. I would like to be able to make the same claim, but the Statins pushed my weight way up and I can't seem to get it down. Refined sugar is the biggest contributor to the 'bad' carb diet and there have been tests (I can't find the links now) that prove a solid connection between refined sugar and inflammation; inflammation being a major factor for M.I propensity. Hope you can keep it up and keep it off.

Best,

Brooks