Co Q10 depletion from beta blockers?

[BSGfan]

I've been off statins for about two years now, but I continue to take 50mg
Atenolol aka Tenormin for hypertension. In the past year I've enjoyed a 45 pound weight loss, and that helped my high blood pressure a great deal. The dosage was reduced to 25mg daily.

Lately I have been a bit concerned about the Atenolol depleting my coenzyme q10, and possible eventual aggravation of my statin induced nerve and muscle damage. Is this a realistic concern? Should I be supplementing with coenzyme q10 while using beta blockers and, if so, how much would be reasonable?

[adec]

BSGfan, I don't have an answer for your initial question. I do know some beta blockers inhibit the production of melatonin, which could cause sleep disturbances. I'm personally leery of anything that inhibits natural processes indefinitely, whether it's: cholesterol, autoimmune, inflammation, muscle function etc. AFAIK, beta blockers work by slowing the rhythm of the heart via the kidneys. This overall muscle weakening and decrease in oxygen seems counterproductive toward optimal heart health. I also know there's a danger of severe blood pressure elevation if stopped suddenly, as opposed to tapering off the dosage gradually.

Has your doctor ever suggested magnesium or magnesium orotate (regulates and relaxes arterial smooth muscle tissue) or vitamin K2 or MK-7 (reduces calcification, strengthen arteries) as a first defense in lowering blood pressure? Or check my message to bradleyda for some good suggestions concerning an overall heart plan.

http://www.spacedoc.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=1271

By the way, what does BFG stand for?

[adec]

Battlestar Galactica? :)

[BSGfan]

[quote="adec"]Battlestar Galactica? [/quote]

Ahem. Yes, I'm a big fan of the Sci Fi Channel series, and, to a lesser extent, the campy 1978 original...although the less said about the chimp in the robot dog suit the better.

[BSGfan]

[quote="adec"]BSGfan, I don't have an answer for your initial question. I do know some beta blockers inhibit the production of melatonin, which could cause sleep disturbances. I'm personally leery of anything that inhibits natural processes indefinitely, whether it's: cholesterol, autoimmune, inflammation, muscle function etc. AFAIK, beta blockers work by slowing the rhythm of the heart via the kidneys. This overall muscle weakening and decrease in oxygen seems counterproductive toward optimal heart health. I also know there's a danger of severe blood pressure elevation if stopped suddenly, as opposed to tapering off the dosage gradually.

Has your doctor ever suggested magnesium or magnesium orotate (regulates and relaxes arterial smooth muscle tissue) or vitamin K2 or MK-7 (reduces calcification, strengthen arteries) as a first defense in lowering blood pressure? Or check my message to bradleyda for some good suggestions concerning an overall heart plan.

http://www.spacedoc.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=1271

By the way, what does BFG stand for?[/quote]


The elevation of blood pressure appears accurate. I have experimentally varied the dosage of the Atenolol and have noticed my systolic blood pressure fluctuating by as much as 15 points, and, in one isolated case, by as much as 30 points--which upset my physician so much he recommended I go on Lisinopril in conjunction with the Atenolol. This seemed a bit of an overreaction on my doctor's part, I felt, and I have not yet started the new med. If I am not mistaken, increased muscle and joint discomfort can be a side effect...something I'm not wild about, what with the statin injuries I've had in the last couple years.

My physician and my neurologist both seemed to feel supplementing with Magnesium for relief of muscle cramps might be beneficial, but neither of them mentioned any effect on hypertension.

[Ray Holder]

Depletion of Q10 by beta blockers is quite well known, one beta blocker was withdrawn about a year ago in UK because it was causing heart damage, which is only to be expected if Q10 is reduced.

Blood pressure often responds to Q10 supplementation, I only take a nitrate vasodilator now, whereas previously I took Bendroflumethazide and Diltiazem as well. I take a large dose of Q10, I have built it up to 3x300 mg a day, and it keeps my BP around the 140/80 mark. It works by improving the filling phase of the heart, the most energy demanding phase, and thus preventing back pressure against the outgoing pulse of the circulation.

It also has been found to correct arrythmia, for which beta blockers are also used, but they worsen the basic cause of Q10 depletion in the process

Ray

[adec]

There you go. I haven't studied the issue enough, but it makes sense that beta blockers are subtractive and would deplete CoQ10.

There's also a fair difference between inhibiting or reducing natural processes and better regulating them. Magnesium and vitamin K2 (MK-7) would be the most fundamentally sound way to regulate, relax, and strengthen heart function.

As well, beta blockers too have the potential to deplete magnesium. To say that your doctors feel that magnesium "might be beneficial" with the dearth of scientific research available almost makes me question their credentials. Not that magnesium alone immediately solves all your health issues, but it in the very least puts you back on the correct road.

*http://www.medhelp.org/forums/cardio/messages/32162.html+magnesium+deficiency+beta+blocker&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

*http://www.rense.com/general63/magne.htm

One might say that serum magnesium levels are inversely related to the risk of death from ischemic heart disease. There's very good scientific evidence that suggests mitral valve prolapse correlates directly with magnesium deficiency.

*http://www.ctds.info/mvp1.html

And calcification would relate very well to a vitamin K2 and vitamin D3 deficiency. Though, I've never heard of someone suffering from a rare beta blocker deficiency. Taking one might be similar to placing you in a straitjacket because you suffer from restless leg syndrome, or inducing a coma after a stroke. Treating the symptoms or managing the disease without ever addressing or curing the actual problem, that's the current state of medical science.

May the force be with you.

[adec]

I didn't realize that Medhelp forum link was broken. Try this one instead.

*http://www.medhelp.org/forums/cardio/messages/32162.html

[Ray Holder]

I had forgotten that magnesium is needed in the nerve cells controlling muscle contraction and release, apparently, calcium is stored in the reticulum, and is released to make muscles contract, but magnesium is then necessary to relax the muscle, otherwise muscle cramps and pain can result.

A short explanation of the process can be found on the W Australia Polio website, at *http://members.upnaway.com/~poliowa/Magnesium%20Mucle%20Relaxation.html

The heart muscle probably works the same way, contracting and relaxing continuously, so any magnesium problems will inhibit relaxation, destroying the natural rhythm, and causing irregular heart rate.

Ray

[adec]

Interesting link to the Polio website Ray, thanks.

The minerals calcium and magnesium (potassium) all share a very strong bond. And calcium should already be plentiful enough in our diets. However, too much calcium without proper magnesium levels can help promote inflammation.

Of course, vitamin K2 (as menaquinone 7, or MK-7) keeps that calcium out of the arteries, and mainly in the bone -- where it belongs. In other words, warfin-induced medial elastocalcinosis could actually be completely reversed by supplementing with vitamin K, but especially K2. Shouldn't be too hard to find the relevant studies. Therefore, taken in synergy: magnesium, calcium, vitamin D3 and K1/K2, are all share a complimentary relationship with one another.

This is all fundamental science, to the point where the prospect of any alternatives is nauseating. Some even deleterious. We're talking about the very worst of current medical science. I'm almost afraid to dig deeper. We can jump up and down sore singing the praises of preventative supplementation, and the most elemental magnesium, or even hyaluronic acid. Either supplement is found in almost any natural health food store, and would cost several dollars a year. Although those tiny dollars aren't what helps to pad the pockets. What a sham-e.

Again, I hope at least one person who hasn't been gobbled whole by a firmly entrenched medical science -- with their rat poison, statins, artificial stents, and pig valves -- takes a longer look at the information contained in my post.

http://www.spacedoc.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=1271

I believe the truth should always speak for itself. But yeah, sometimes you just have to do the hard sell. The main difference is most doctors don’t like to be questioned. Whereas, I ask that almost everything written here by me undergoes a rigorous verification process by those educated patients among us. Take control and responsibility of your own health. Afterall, if you're reading this forum you've already begun to question medical authority.

And if you're still confused by the prospect of natural medicine, and I don't blame you, then you could always consult someone who practices Naturopathic medicine. A naturopath would test for the correct imbalances, and allow for the best of medicine and that of natural science to be sorted out and work together. Again, there are just as many bad naturopaths as there are good doctors.

Of course, this message goes well beyond the original question, and is directed more at those generally suffering from heart disease.

[Val]

I haven't posted on this forum for quite awhile but when I saw this thread I felt compelled to add my 2 cents worth. Beta blockers are definitly not the perfect solution for those with heart problems. My cardiologist put me on Metoprolol (Toprol) for a slight irregularity in heart beat. My angina kept getting worse, so the strength was increased and the dosage was doubled each time I complained until I was taking 100 Mg morning and 100 mg at night. I could hardly breathe after walking 20 ft. My ankles and feet were swelling and I could barely function. Suspecting that the beta blockers were not helping but making matters worse I asked my General Practitioner to write me a prescription for lower dosage with an eye to getting off them altogether. She did and I started the long slow process of getting off them
which was accomplished last spring. Gradually the swelling in my feet and legs dimished. My energy level increased, my annoying coughing and wheezing ceased and no more angina. The pre-tibia lesion on my leg is gradually going away and I feel great. I still take the CoQ-10, Magnesium and D3 which I feel have contributed greatly to my new feeling of well being. At 73 I am again gardening, canning and enjoying life for the first time in five-years when I was put on the beta blockers.
The only pharmaceutical meds I am on now are insulin and thyroid.
Haven't seen a doctor in almost a year and then just to renew my prescriptions for the above meds. The diabetes developed after my first encounter with beta-blocker Tenormin coupled with Diazide 25 years ago.
The cardiologist has lost one more "cash cow".