Anybody tried NADH for their neuropathy/myopathy pain...

[harley2ride]

It definately seems like NADH really helps my muscle/nerve pain. To me it makes a very big difference. I've stopped taking it twice now, and restarted it, and both times, the difference was very notable.

Anybody else tried NADH or have any experience with it?

[cinbad]

[quote="harley2ride"]It definately seems like NADH really helps my muscle/nerve pain. To me it makes a very big difference. I've stopped taking it twice now, and restarted it, and both times, the difference was very notable.

Anybody else tried NADH or have any experience with it?[/quote] Hello harley, I haven't heard of NADH before but just read some information on a website nadh.com and it sounded very promising. Where did you get your supply of this supplement and how long did you take it before you noticed any results and what were the things that you noticed. Also how many mg. a day are you taking and what is the cost? Thanks for any info. Cinbad

[harley2ride]

Most vitamin shops have them (I get mine at vitacost.com), and I take 5mg per day.. My MDA doc suggested I try them...

[Biologist]

I plan to buy it again -- a lot of it. This week. My thinking was that it was effective when I used it, but when I ran out last time, I did not get around to reordering. That was many weeks / months ago. Recently, besides your post, I have heard / read other endorsements for it.

I use to put two of the tiny pills in my mouth and crush them a bit with my teeth and then put them under my tongue to dissolve while I took a rest / nap. (I rarely need to take such naps any more unless I slept real poorly the night before.) I think that works (i.e., sublingually). Seems like you are instructed to take it / them on an empty stomach so that it can pass through your stomach undigested (like a buffered aspirin) to be better absorbed beyond the stomach (i.e., intestines) or the molecule will be denatured. Not supposed to lie back down in bed for 15 or 30 minutes if you take it on waking. That is why I started doing it sublingually later in the day as I did not want to wait around prior to breakfast (but that's silly and not really a problem waiting a while to eat). I cannot be sure that it was getting absorbed the way I was doing it. This time I will play it straight by the directions. Hard to believe that small of a pill could be so potent, but apparently it is. Thanks for mentioning it. I will post on my results in a few weeks. My left shoulder pain seems to be persistent. It's sure back recently. But it has been almost completely gone for some weeks at a time before. I think the NADH maybe a real good idea.

I may update a post I did many months ago regarding Botox before too long (but if not, this paragraph will have to suffice; please pardon the temporary tread hyjacking). In short, it again set me back a bit (temporarily hopefully, until it wears off after about three months again). It made my left arm and leg and shoulder noticeably weaker and I can feel it a bit on my right side too (which otherwise is nearly normal). My left achiles tendon started acting up and there is a new "clicking" feeling / sensation in that ankle with every step (implying a weakening of surrounding and supporting joint musculature there). Some statin-related damage immolates ALS and ALS is the only contraindication listed for Botox. (I use it to prevent tension headaches and also cosmetically as it keeps me from looking like I am squiting or looking like I am angry; and it works wonders for me.) For the next trial in six months or so (or whenever I feel brave), I will be doing my own method for administration (or I will refuse to do it ever again) which will entail many more injections but less than half the amount of Botox solution in all. The problem is that way too much is going directly into systemic circulation in the blood stream and only a small amount is remaining in the facial muscle sites where it is injected. (I get it in about four small shots between the eyes.) The doctor is making the shot depots way to large for me. For "normal people" this is not a problem (actually it probably IS a problem, it's just a bit too subtle to be noticed, but I theorize it does cause some degree of unwanted paralysis in skeletal muscles for everyone which people would like to avoid if they knew it was happening). I will also fabricate a simple cardboard face piece (from an empty toilet paper cylinder maybe) to wear with a rubber band around my head (i.e., "mask-like thing" above the eyes) for an hour or two right afterwards to restrict blood flow in and out of that area for a while. My guess is that this is likely to be very successful. (Listening BigPharma?) I will likely have to do it myself (inject myself) and figure out how to get the Botox (I have several options) since the doctor is not the type to experiment. He did not listen to my suggestion last time (about numerous smaller injections) and told me what I already knew that the drug needs to be in the "belly of the muscle." No sh*t Sherlock. In fact, it needs to be in several locations "in the belly of the muscle" and not outflowing into systemic circulation. (Also it will cost about half as much as only half as much or less will be used -- it's sold by the "unit.") BTW, he also started Lipitor a year or two ago as part of preventative medicine for himself. ("That stuff sure does work!") And he does not seem to be catching on very fast regardless of my warnings to him including a lowering of IQ. Appears to be a slow learner. (Actually he' just a typical Know-it-all In-BigPharma-we-trust-type like I use to be). He'll learn. Eventually. Well, this will be the update then as it is already so long -- I may link to this post from that thread sometime. The other thing I noticed is some slight "depression" and/or headaches in the mornings and maybe all day long (where I just get use to it). Barely noticeable, but it is there and may have happened last time a bit too as I remember. This time I happened to be taking a small dosage of Cialis at the time. A couple of days after the Botox, I read that Cialis and Viagra are being used recently to help escort drugs across the blood brain barrier. Wonderful (sarcasm there). The Botox toxin is just barely too large to cross on its own per the literature, but the Cialis would likely have done the trick (more nitric oxide relaxes the endothelium cells to allow such a crossing across the cellular junctions). Botox impedes synaptic junctions between nerve and muscle cells in the body as its mechanism of action; but would effect the same junctions in nerve to nerve junctions (neuronal synapses); so that would explain the "perception issues" I have noticed. That's my theory anyway. Some of my theories turn out to be right, this one has a high probability I believe.

OK, hyjack over, back to NADH. I will also be ordering a lot of D-Ribose at the same time. They both assist mitochodrial function: more energy, less pain.

Biologist

[Biologist]

I thought I would add the following:

I take a lot of supplements. I believe they help me to feel better; and I believe that some, like alpha lipoic acid, vitamin C and krill oil among many others are probably good for long-range health, but are not expected to make me feel better right away. But I am not SURE that any given supplement helps. There are too many variables on a day to day basis for me to feel fully confident that any supplement is worth taking. And the effects, if any, are often subtle and/or take time (unlike some pharmaceuticals where there can be no doubt like with some sledge hammer sleep medications such as Ambien, but then there are sledge hammer side effects too). I feel the same about NADH and D-Ribose. I think they help, but would not swear to it. Carnitine may be an exception. I view it as one but I would not expect it to be for everyone. CoQ10 is one I have no idea about because I have rarely been without it for any length of time to know the difference without it. Ginkgo may be an exception too since I can see it work. If I cut myself a little while shaving, I bleed more. And when I give blood to the Red Cross, it goes quicker -- but even there I could be wrong. It might be a combination of supplements including ginkgo that's responsible for that physical change. After some years at this, I may draw some more definitive conclusions, but not for now. I am not a good sleeper and never have been. Sometimes the later it gets, the more awake I get. Go figure. That is a variable that is hard to gauge when evaluating supplements and how I feel. Today was a "low energy day" that I mainly attribute to poor sleep last night. I did go out this evening and bought some NADH (and paid way too much as it is half the cost online) and could not find D-Ribose (which I would have paid too much for also) which is expensive anyway you look at it. It is all a gamble I guess. Same with Rogaine for hair loss, expensive but I have no idea for sure if it really helps or not. I keep using it though. I believe some, most or all my supplements help (while maybe I just hope some of them help) and are worth the cost and effort.

I also bought Valerian this evening, an herbal sleep aid. I read about it last night as being an alternative to melatonin (which I took last night). In a little over the time it took to write this post, I have now gone from being very awake to being pretty sleepy. Who knows? Probably just a coincidence, but maybe not...

Biologist

[Biologist]

Today was a good energy day for me despite not a lot of sleep, and my shoulder felt pretty good. Encouraging. NADH might well have had a hand in it. It could be coincidence. But I like it. I'll try valerian more later on. On the Botox, I should add that I should not write with a sore shoulder! The doctor who gives me my shots is very competent and I have a lot of respect for him. It was a good experiment. It was my idea, and worked "better" than I expected. Now I know more than I did and that was part of the idea. I got the shots May 8th (over six weeks ago) and "my new symptoms" are certainly tolerable while I would have been smarter doing it at a better time. (All annoyance expressed in my previous post is actually better directed at myself, but its sure good to have someone else to try and lay it on whenever possible though .) I have had a whole lot going on including some physical work which mostly explains the increased sleep quality issue recently. BTW, things are generally going well for/with me. As the shots take me back a bit, this does imply that I have improved. For some of us it is easy to forget how much harder things were earlier. For me things are improving. I hope the same for all others.

Biologist

[uncle2blade]

Biologest, Can you give me some information on Chelation, D-Ribose, and Ginkgo. Thanks, Craig

[Biologist]

Craig,

I do not know much about celation and have never tried any such treatment. Sounds interesting though, it is just something that I have not gotten around to looking at yet.

Here is an interesting article Brooks found and posted its hyperlink here a while back which discusses D-Ribose:

*http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=381

The guy seems to believe he is onto something. I notice that he has apparently updated the article this month, so he apparently still believes in it. I plan to reread it right now. Brian was also pro D-Ribose in some posts. I think Brooks idea of putting it as the sweetener in your coffee is a good one. I did that a long time before I ran out recently. I will be reordering a bunch of stuff this evening.

I'll keep my eyes open for a good article on Ginkgo (may be a while though). It has been studied a lot. You would probably not want to take aspirin at the same time though -- I don't take aspirin. One thing (among many) it is good for is improving early Alzheimer's cases; and low cholesterol is looking like it may be the cause of Alzheimer's. Anyone having taken a lipophlic statin like Lipitor or Zocor would almost necessarily have had low brain cholesterol for the duration of the time they were on statins since the brain must make its own as it cannot pull it from blood circulation due to the Blood Brain Barrier. (Statins increase the incidence of Alzheimer's, I'm sure of that. I think is likely protective in cases like ours.) If someone's blood cholesterol was high by someone's standards as determined by pulling blood, that says absolutely nothing about their brain cholesterol -- which is now going to get lowered! Those statin molecules do cross the BBB and would have impeded necessary onsite production of cholesterol by glial cells which support neurons and new neuronal connections to form and support memories. Dr. Graveline posted a review of a book on the issue right here:

http://www.spacedoc.net/alzheimers_solved_review

I plan to order and read the book.

Biologist

[Biologist]

Craig,

Rereading that article just now, I see that it is also an endorsement for taking NADH too. I had originally thought that it was part of his recommendations when I read it months ago, but word searched "NADH" just now and came up blank. However, he has shortened NADH to simply "NAD" which is the same thing. The "H" is just a hydrogen atom/ion/proton that comes and goes depending on the stage of the reaction series in question. Interesting. I think what he postulates is very liikely correct.

Here is the section where I found it:

"Treatment package for failing mitochondria

PACE - do not use up energy faster than your mitos can supply it.

FEED THE MITOCHONDRIA - supply the raw materials necessary for the mitochondria to heal themselves and work efficiently, namely D-ribose, Co-enzyme Q10, acetyl-L-carnitine, NAD and magnesium..."

Biologist

[Brian C.]

Regarding chelation, a treatment I have been having on and off for a good few years now, it is a course of infusions containing the chelating agent EDTA. "Chelate" is derived from a Greek word meaning "claw", a reference to the substances ability to "claw" heavy metals by a binding process. Originally developed by I B Farben of Germany after WW1 for removing calcium from fabric in dying processes it was adopted by medics to remove lead, mercury, plutonium etc from the blood stream and tissues of patients suffering from metal toxicities.

It is used by my endocrinologist and alternative-medicine practitioners to remove the calcification that occurs in arterial sclerosis.

It IS effective and I have met several people at the clinic who many years earlier had been told by their doctors that they needed triple-bypasses as a matter of urgency but chose chelation instead. One is a racing driver in his Sixties who is still racing!

However, since the process consumes cheap ingredients (EDTA + Vitamins & heparin) there is nothing in it for Big Pharma so, surprise surprise, it is not authorized by the FDA!

From Wikipedia:

"Some alternative practitioners use chelation to treat hardening of the arteries. The use of EDTA chelation therapy as a treatment for coronary artery disease is currently being studied by the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, but no claims or findings are expected before 2009. Chelation therapy is not approved by the FDA to treat coronary artery disease.

The American Heart Association contends that there is currently "no scientific evidence to demonstrate any benefit from this form of therapy" and that the "United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the National Institutes of Health (NIH) and the American College of Cardiology all agree with the American Heart Association" that "there have been no adequate, controlled, published scientific studies using currently approved scientific methodology to support this therapy for cardiovascular disease."

The usual farrago.

It has been proven safe and effective over more than 20 years now at the clinic I attend, which is not run by an "alternative medical practitioner" but a consultant endocrinologist, and I will continue to enjoy the benefits of this wholly benign treatment as long as I am able to afford and attend.

Brian.

[cjbrooksjc]

Brian: Yes, we are in deep doo-doo here with our Federal 'watchdog' eating from the fox's hand, but EDTA, DMSA, with the attending, precautionary additives are available OTC here; orally, at any rate.

Regards,

Brooks

[Brian C.]

There are a number of clinics in the US that administer parenteral (IV) chelation however.


Brian.

PS Still no news from our friend.

[cjbrooksjc]

RE: Jeff. I posted a question on the THINCS forum to see if they have heard from him at all.

[Brian C.]

I emailed Uffe last week.


Brian.