Colestipol a valid alternative?

[BSGfan]

Despite a more than 40 pound weight loss this year my total untreated cholesterol stubbornly remains in the 250 range, with my trigycerides in the 300 range.

I don't want to return to statins. They were really aggravating a problem with back cramps, headaches, and ocular migraines I had. Also, I had a Lopid-Niacin-Mevacor interaction last year that left me with persistent burning, cramping sensations along one side of my face and jaw that continue to this day. I have found Coenzyme Q-10 beneficial in reducing my discomfort.

After I adamantly refused statins my doctor, who regards me as a stroke-or-heart-attack-in-training, offered something very old fashioned to me, Colestipol, a cholesterol reducing anion-exchange resin and bile acid sequestrant that was rendered largely obsolete and obscure by the advent of statins.

Can anyone tell me anything about this drug?

[adec]

I don't like bile acid sequestrates, simply because they bind with and decrease the bioavailability of fat-soluble vitamins. They can also interfere with the absorption of prescription medications. Not good.

I like astaxanthin myself [increases HDL and lipoprotein particle size, greatly reduces oxidized-LDL] and cinnamon is also good for lowering triglycerides and oxidized-LDL, and increasing lipoprotein particle size.

Otherwise, your total cholesterol is fine, and your trigs are too high. How about your HDL?

[BSGfan]

Yeah, I wasn't happy with the side effects either. Beats additional neuromuscular damage from statins, though.

Right now I'm flipping through the 1999 edition of Dr. Kilmer McCully's "The Heart Revolution." McCully was so concerned about devastating side effects from statins he actually recommended they only be given to high risk patients with extensive cardiovascular disease who were expected to die in five or ten years anyway. Yeesh.

Am unfamilar with Astaxanthin. Will mention it to my doctor.

In recent months I have become very sensitive to the "stealth statins" of cinnamon and garlic. Taking them in even minute amounts tends to aggravate my facial discomfort symptoms, sometimes for hours.

From last week's blood work.
Total Cholesterol.....259
Triglycerides...........303
HDL.........................35
LDL........................163

[adec]

Everyone has different pharmacogenetics, and knowing your own body is half the battle. Although, I wouldn't have recommend cinnamon if it were a statin. I've actually studied the subject quite extensively. I believe it's more a question of confusion over language, and the negative connotations behind the word 'statin', rather than chemistry.

Cinnamon works far more strongly over the pentose pathway, thus securing its place as a great insulin mimetic. In that respect, CoQ10 (and ascorbic acid) activates gluconeogenesis and cinnamon regulates it. Otherwise, anything working along the same melavonate pathway as statins can create intolerances, this includes lots of common vitamins, spices, and herbs.

BTW, your HDL and Trigs are the only things needing geniune work.

[Biologist]

BSGfan,

Congratulations on loosing the weight. How did you pull that off? (so to speak)

I too lost an additional 20 lbs this year, and am now at my preferred weight of 180 from an all time high of 210 from about two years ago.

There is another thread that I will evenutally update where I previously posted my last few blood lipid test results while off statins. Here's the new one. Massive "improvement." When I do update, I will cut and paste from this one or at least not have to track down the documentation again. Here goes as of about two weeks ago:

Total Chol. 192

Trig. 96

HDL 53

LDL 120

VLDL 19

Note that my Dr's practice recent changed from "less than 100" to "less than 130" for LDL.

So, I had to quit Zocor to get "perfect numbers." I attribute the change in my numbers and my weight mainly to my change in eating habits. I basically ate no carbs over the last few months (except what shows up in some acceptable fruits and vegetables), and now have added just a few carbs back in to quit loosing. But I also "free fed." No real dieting. No hunger pangs. Amazing.

However, to be honest, I cannot say how much may be attributable to Androgel -- synthetic testosterone that I have also been using -- more on that topic next year.

Triglycerides are all that I really have interest in (while I agree there is some support for aiming to have high HDL counts). My triglyceride have dropped like a rock -- they have been in the low 300s until the last few months. Supplements probably have helped there. BTW, I now take Krill Oil instead of fish oil.

So how did you lose the weight? Do you think you can keep it off.

Did you too cut out the carbs? If not, if you now start, I have a hard time believing your triglycerides will not drop and that your weight will stay off more easily. I have very little doubt that my weight will be staying off.

Biologist.
____

PS. Cinnamon is clearly a natural statin. A potent one. You are on the right track leaving it off. It may also have the properties that adec describes, I don't know yet, but one property it does have is HMG CoA reductase inhibitor activity. It is a statin.

[BSGfan]

>>...anything working along the same melavonate pathway as statins can create intolerances, this includes lots of common vitamins, spices, and herbs.>>

Thank you so very much!! You are the first person to offer any explanation for the crop of vitamin and food sensitivities I have developed in recent months. My physician, allergist, and pharmacist were all pretty much perplexed.

Once the intolerances develop do they ever go away or am I pretty much stuck?

Here is a list of items that aggravate my facial discomfort symptoms:
Cashews
Cinnamon
Chocolate
Fish Oil Capsules
Flax Seed Oil Capsules
Folic Acid
Garlic
Herring
Niacin
Salmon
Turmeric
Vitamins B6, B12
Walnuts

Have also noticed some possible developing sensitivity to sausage, peanuts, and Vitamin E. I can eat fish like halibut and cod with no difficulty. Acetyl-L-Carnitine and Coenzyme Q-10 will also briefly aggravate my facial discomfort initially, but after an hour or two they start producing relief.

[BSGfan]

>>...so how did you lose the weight?>>

April '07.....318 pounds

May '07.....Diagnosed with fatty liver disease and pre-diabetes.

Low sugar, low-fat, low-carb. Lean meats like fish, chicken and turkey, skim milk, whole grain oatmeal, non-fat yogurt, very little rice, breads, or pastas. Lots of cauliflower, carrots, broccoli, and other vegetables. Small, controlled portion control, trying to eat two to five small meals daily rather than three large ones. Joined Weight Watchers.

I tend to be fairly lazy and sedentary; also I have some physical disabilities including a prosthetic foot on one leg and a club foot and bum knee on the opposite leg, and a bad back, so heavy exercise is pretty much out. Too many discomfort issues. Light exercise with arm and hand weights while watching TV. Gym visits with weight training every once in a blue moon....need to get a bit more serious with that. Stretching and range of motion exercises for the arms, legs, and back. Have some issues with recurring foot sore infections and ear infections, so a swimming program is contraindicated at this time, darn it.

Dec '07....271 pounds.

Have been bouncing up and down about five to seven pounds due to the holiday feasting, but am pretty stable at this time. Intend to lose at least another 40 pounds by August '08.

[BSGfan]

>>...your HDL and Trigs are the only things needing genuine work..>>

My father's father was the same age I am now when he died of a heart attack, after suffering several small coronaries over the years.

In 20 months I will be the same exact age that my father was when he had his first and fatal heart attack. His total cholesterol tended to be more than twice mine. Am getting deeply concerned about my long term health and longevity, and am currently getting counseling for associated feelings of despondency and hopelessness.

Any advice you could give to get my HDL and Trigs under control would be deeply appreciated.

[BSGfan]

Next silly question:

Since I now find supplementing with B Vitamins uncomfortable--even the small amounts of Niacin, Folic Acid, B6, and B12 in a slice of fortified bread or a bowl of fortified oatmeal make my face prickle for a bit--should I avoid B vitamin supplementation? I find I have less difficulty tolerating foods that are naturally high in Bs, such as liver.

My thought is although this may be unconfortable it is not injurious, as the amounts of B vitamins involved are very tiny, only about 20 to 30 percent of the RDA, and way, way below the levels generally thought to produce nerve damage. Besides, if I have statin induced nerve damage, wouldn't B vitamins encourage healing?

My pharmacist and physician seemed very perplexed at my recent B vitamin symptoms, but seemed to agree with my reasoning.

However, I reckon that, over time, large doses of cinnamon and garlic, because of their statin-like chemistry, would actually tend to worsen a statin induced injury, yes? I've carefully avoided these substances since the intolerance manifested itself.

In retrospect I imagine I could have seen the garlic intolerance coming. I found after my Lopid-Niacin-Mevacor injury that taking garlic pills was quite uncomfortable but using powdered or raw garlic in cooking and seasoning produced no obvious problem. Perhaps I became progressively more sensitive to garlic with overexposure. It was a spice that I used regularly.

Second silly question: Most of these sensitivities only obviously manifested themselves in recent weeks or months. Didn't have these intolerances a year ago. Does this imply that my statin induced nerve and muscle damage is progressively worsening? I'd say my overall level of discomfort is less than it was five months ago, and supplementing with Coenzyme Q-10 in the 200 mg range daily does a good job of moderating what little discomfort is left. I have also started supplementing with Acetyl-L-Carnitine in the 250 mg range daily and that also seems to be of benefit.

The fact that the discomfort seems to be on a declining trend is very reassurring, but all these brand new vitamin and food intolerances are disturbing.

[Biologist]

BSGfan,

Gotcha covered.

First order here:

*http://www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Gary-Taubes/dp/1400040787/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1198300347&sr=8-1

It's in the top ten books I have ever read. And I read A LOT. I know of no one who reads more.

I have two still in the Amazon shrink wrap that just came in of that book deciding who to get them to. My own copy is going with me over Christmas traveling in a few hours partly because I am going to reread it and also so several family members can browse it, then they can get their own (unless someone really wants one of my new copies -- but most of them are not big on reading books). I've tried it before. But they are probably going to a couple of doctors I tend to think well of. May just keep an extra on hand at all times.

It's made for you. The guy is not big on exercise for weight loss and explains why in a very credible way. He deconstructs the stupidity and corruption involved in the absurd weight loss myths over the decades here in the States. As typical, it has been mostly foreigners who got it right over half a century ago with real experiments and sound reasoning, not the egotists and money grubbers found here at the head of all our most prestigious organizations and agencies. It's the CholesterolHeads mentality in DietHead form that he politely destroys. Great reviews. The "experts" hate it but appear to be keeping their mouths shut about it so far. Good move for them.

He will be changing your mind about fats. I'm right with him. I eat a lot of fat (Coconut oil too, Thanks, Fran! -- love that stuff.) Basically fat's used by the body for power -- mostly muscles. Carbs too, but they also induce the release of insulin whereby the carbs are converted directly to fat AND THEN DIRECTED DIRECTLY INTO YOUR ADIPOSE TISSUE FOR STORAGE. Long-term storage usually, as long as the insulin stays up. That's the science behind getting fat. It is hormonal. Insulin is the hormone that does it. BTW, carbs are the basis for diabetes, and heart disease, and numerous other "western civilization diseases." All the big ones. The standard line of increasing carbs and cutting fats is a lie, particularly for diabetes, pre-diabetes, metabolic syndrome, etc. He shows the science behind it all.

Also, you need to get your testosterone levels and estrogen levels checked. Get'em all checked including Human Growth Hormone and IGF-1. If low, find someone who knows what they're doing. It might cost you a few bucks. To start, go to a pharmacy or two and find out who's prescribing Human Chronic Gonadotropin for men -- that's a good sign someone knows what they are doing. Travel if you have to find an expert. Mine turns out to be one of the most credentialed doctors in town. I visited a urologist before that who did not have a clue (I'm serious) and later learned that is very common.

Biologist

[Biologist]

I'm not sure what to say about the food intolerances at this point.

Bioloigst

[BSGfan]

Taubes' "Good Calories, Bad Calories." Yes, picked up a copy from the local public library along with McCully's "The Heart Revolution." Fascinating reading.

[Biologist]

Excellent, BSGfan.

Biologist

[BSGfan]

>>I'm not sure what to say about the food intolerances at this point.>>

Join the club. Bafflement is the usual response I have been getting. Somewhat frustrating.

[BSGfan]

Update.

Since December '07 my weight has remained stable, in the 271-274 range.
Ulcerations on my leg have finally healed so will be beginning swimming program immediately.

Cholesterol and triglycerides remain elevated, almost no change in my previously quoted numbers. My "good" cholesterol chronically remains low, which I put down to lack of exercise due to my physical handicaps and discomfort issues.

Had stopped taking the Cholestipol after a brief period. Painful constipation with liver/gall bladder discomfort. Gall bladder is currently a tad sludgy, with polyps, but no actual stones. Since the medication can promote gallstone formation, am reluctant to restart it. Cholecystectomies are not part of my approved weekend activities.

Naturally, my physician recommends I restart the medication at twice the previous dosage, or return to some sort of statin drug use.

Have been trying to follow McCully heart diet, but suspect I have proportions wrong. Will review texts again and make alterations.

Typical meals include chicken broth, ground turkey or chicken, all sorts of beans, including lentils and chickpeas, oatmeal, bran muffins, egg whites, skim milk, and steamed or blended vegetables including carrots, romaine lettuce, cauliflower, and broccoli, fish such as cod, snapper and maui maui. Almost no breads, potatoes, rices, or pastas. Occasionally I wll allow myself a plain hamburger with no dressing, a can of Pringles, or a stack of pancakes with sugarless syrup and turkey bacon.

Perhaps if I try smaller more frequent meals with exercise my weight and cholesterol numbers will improve. My physician remains convinced they will not improve without medication.

Despite my weight loss and dietary changes am frustrated that my numbers remain so stubbornly high.

Comments and advice welcome.