Experienced problems with Zocor, Dr now wants Lipitor

[gardenmaniac]

Hi,

I am a 49 year old female with a family history of high cholesterol and heart disease. My blood pressure is 100/60, I am a non-smoker and I exercise 5 times a week..weight training & cardio..(wish I was thinner...but size 10 isn't bad)...My own numbers were ok until last year..total of 238, LDL of 168..Dr put me on 20 mg Zocor & assured me that she would do the same for her own mother. Started in April of 2005. I am an avid gardener and we started putting in a waterfall the same day I started the meds..I thought my low backache was just from straining those muscles. Also from working out at the gym. Back stiffness and pain was mainly in the morning..couldn't hardly put my socks on...I just thought I was getting old as after I was up for a bit, it eased off. At the 3 month point, I had my blood work done and numbers were great! Total was 178 & LDL was 108. I assumed the liver/kidney function was ok as doc said keep taking the meds. Planned a camping trip & assumed my back would be in agony after sleeping on the ground. Had a glass of wine & fell asleep. Felt great the next morning. A few weeks later I connected the dots & remembered I had not taken the Zocor. Started to rethink the few times I had not felt the back pain. Decided to try not taking it. The very first morning, the back pain was gone. Now I knew about the side effects...I was carefully paying attention. However, MY assumption of what constituted muscle aches was that I would ache all over..like I had the flu or something..and since my blood work didn't show anything...I just didn't connect the Zocor to the backache.

Went for my checkup this April. Numbers are higher than last year, total of 246 and LDL of 178. Doc wants me on Lipitor. She knows about what happened with Zocor. She said I should try the Lipitor as some people just can't handle one statin or another. She wanted me on 10 mg of Lipitor. She agreed to let me cut those in half. I picked up the samples, but I am just scared to take it! I have been looking to see what the odds are of reacting to a different statin, and what are the REAL long term benefits of taking one.

I had once incident last summer of putting something in my daughters car, not being able to find it, & when she told me, "Mom, you put it in my car", I have absolutely NO memory of doing so. (You know how usually you remember and think "Oh yeah, NOW I remember") This spring I found some files in the cabinet that I had made & filed receipts into from last summer and I had been looking all over for them. The files are in my handwriting, so I know it was me that did it. I still have no memory of doing that. That is SO scary.

Am now starting to wonder if a tendon thing I have going on in one knee is result of the Zocor as well.

So, I guess what I am asking is if it is likely that I will react to Lipitor and does anyone know what the clinical study results REALLY say, especially for women. Am also concerned about my parents, both take statins. My Mom on Zocor & is showing some signs of memory issues, but is going to 81.

thanks..

[davidsa]

Check out ww.thincs.org web site for the International Network of Cholesterol Skeptics.

They document many studies showing that:

1 Cholesterol is at most a minor contributor to heart disease

2. Statins are of small but consistent benefit to middle aged men with diagnosed heart disease--but not because they lower cholesterol. Rather, statins change many parameters, and evidently act to reduce inflammation in arteries.

3. In women with heart disiease, statins do reduce the death rate from heart disease, but not the overall death rate. In other words, women on statins don't live longer, but some of them will die of cancer (for example) when otherwise they would have died from heart disease.

4. Elderly people of both sexes live longer with higher cholesterol.

Bearing all this in mind, if I were in your position, I would refuse to consider any statin unless I have been diagnosed with heart disease, and then I would adjust the dose down until there are no annoying side effects, and not worry about the cholesterol level.

If you or your parents decide to take the statins, try a supplement of at least 100 mg per day of Coenzyme Q-10 (more for your parents). This might relieve some of the aches and pains, and possibly some of the mental fog as well.

I'm a guy in my late fifties, with total choelsterol of 240, and LDL around 160, and I have refused all statins for the last 5 years. I have no clinical indication of any blockages, or any heart problems. I am also on a low carb diet-- I eat lots of meat pultry, fish, cheese, butter, and lots and lots of green vegetables. I avoid sugar and starch religiously. I've never felt better.

I also know that people are all different, and what has worked for me might not work for someone else. We each have to find our own way--the docs don't know enough to give individualized advice.

Good luck!

[gardenmaniac]

Thanks for the link you included. I went there and was able to read for myself the actual studies that are often quoted. Found the article from the JAMA regarding women and statins. I feel VERY comfortable with my decision to not take them again. I printed a copy of that study and plan to send it to my doctor informing her that I am not going to take the Lipitor.

As for my parents, they both take statins now. My dad is on Lipitor and my Mom is on Zocor. My Dad did have a 4 coronary bypass at age 65, but his weight, cholesterol and BP were NEVER high. He had however smoked for 40 years and his Dad died of heart disease at 56. My dad is now 81. My Mom has always been overweight, has high BP and very high cholesterol (which is still high even on the meds) She has had no heart issues and is 80. My concern for my Dad is that higher cholesterol helps your immune system and he recently had pnuemonia and is still on oxygen. My Mom recently started to fill the sink with water to wash dishes, walked away & flooded the kitchen and water went into the basement. She is getting quite forgetful, which may or may not have anything to do with Zocor. They are both pretty much of the opinion that if the doctor says it, it is true and they should do it. My brother who lives by them is the same way. I don't think I can convince them to not take the statins & just see what happens. Any ideas?

[davidsa]

For folks who do decide to take statins, I think supplementing with Co-Enzyme Q10 is a necessity. Your parents might be pursuaded to try it--the only question is the dose.

From what I've read, 100 milligrams per day would be a good place to start. I know that some neurologists prescribe 1000 mg per day or more for people with Parkinsons, and this large dose is evidently well tolerated.

Co-Q10 is part of the fuel burning process in every cell in the body, and is especially important to the heart. And Co-Q10 is produced in the same chemical process as cholesterol, so that when statins inhibit cholesterol, they necessarily inhibit CoQ10 by the same amount.

Some doctors are aware of this, and some aren't, but most will not object to supplements if requested by their patients.

You have to respect your parents' decision---everyone is different, and we all have to find our own paths through the medical labyrinth. But adding CoQ10 to their regimen should relieve some aches and pains, and might help their immune systems, and possibly even their cognition.

I'm sure you and your parents will find your various ways through.

[sos_group_owner]

Hi 'gardenmaniac" & David,

Excellent advice David. You've obviously done your research. Re: CoQ10
The best source of CoQ10 is liguid (not powdered) in gelcaps containing some vitamin E or taken with vitamin E. 100mg to 150mg is a good starting point.

CoQ10 can lower BP, so I advise those with either naturally low BP or those taking BP meds to monitor their BP as they increase the dose. My husband used to take 2 BP meds and takes only one now. His daily maintenance dose is 500mg daily - 300mg in the AM and 200mg - PM. He's recovering from cognitive side effects from 8 years of statins - Zocor for the first couple of years, then 5 years of Lipitor 10mg increased to 20mg. He had quad bypass 10 years ago and the normal post op regime is statins, blood thinners and BP meds. His regime now is enalapril (ACE inhibitor), Dr Graveline's "statin alternatives" and several other nutritional supplements. Our diet is low carb, contains all sources of protein including eggs with beneficial omega 3 and vitamin E, healthy fats, including saturated fats like butter and coconut oil and fresh fruits and veggies.

Trying to convince the older generation that statins are doing more harm than benefit is extremely diffucult. I live in a 55+ community of about 300 and most are in their 70's and 80's. When I explain to them that most of their complaints are related to their statin drug, they just give me a blank look like "you think you know more than my doctor"?

I agree with David that if you can convince you parents to add CoQ10 to their regime, it will benefit them greatly. It would be even better if you could convince them to take Dr Graveline's statin alternatives:

1) buffered aspirin - 81 mg
2) CoQ10 - 100 to 150 mg
3) folic acid - 400-800 mcg
B6 - 80-100mg
B12 - 200-250mcg
4) Omega 3 (fish oil or cod liver oil) [ There is no upper limit.]

These four items/categories have the same anti-inflammatory affect as 20 mg's of Lipitor, without side effects.

Keep in mind these supplements are not designed to lower cholesterol (because cholesterol is NOT the problem). Together they are a potent anti-oxidant, they reduce platelet stickiness and control (toxic) homocysteine levels.

This is the link Dr Graveline's article about "Statin Alternatives":
http://www.spacedoc.net/statin_alternatives.htm

Fran