Life post-Lipitor - an update

[Biologist]

That particular hyperlink probably cannot show up on this forum too much. I consider it an important one. Evenutally I may try to get around to taking that test too.

Here is a related theory of mine I’ve considered for some time. (May be right, maybe not -- but regardless, it's not for "nonbiology-oriented types" here on the forum so most people should be forwarned not to read it! ):

Low body temperatures may be a direct function of low mitochondrial output. A by product of ATP metabolism is heat: so, less APT means less body heat. Alternatively and additionally, as Brian knows having read the book by Nick Lane (I believe his name was) as did I, on mitochondria, the system for ATP production can “decouple” in the mitochondria sometimes specifically for the purpose of generating heat. Decoupleing generates heat fast but no ATP. Theory: If body temperatures get too low (e.g., such that enzymes no longer work properly), the body must stop producing ATP (which is bad news) and allow pumped protons to freely pass back through the inner mitochondrial membrane for the purpose of lowering the electrochemical gradient such that it can be reestablished via unimpeded oxidation so as to generate heat) while not producing any ATP. Remember, APT is stored energy, not immediate heat itself, and part of the energy it generates is used for molecular construction (i.e., kinetic energy to potential energy, best case) such that ATP produces less total heat. Low body temperatures may come to be seen as a hallmark for CFS and many or most forms of statin damage. Keep your eyes open for it. I suspect this may be the case. If we look for it, we may/will find that, on average, CFS AND statin damage patients (as well as most people on statins period!) have lower body temperatures. Thyroid hormone supplementation/replacement may become a TREATMENT for statin damage and CFS. Also thyroid hormones are known to increase mitochodrial output of ATP by increasing both their size and number. Under the hypothesis (probably more than an hypothisis) that intact mitochondria multiple at a faster rate than damaged mitochondria, the proposition of thyroid as a treatment becomes more interesting.

Biologist

[cjbrooksjc]

Another extract from Brian's post; this part relative to overheating/compensation:

If you shut down the blood supply to the skin, this has two main effects. The first is that the skin is responsible for controlling the temperature of the body. This means that CFS (read mitochondrial damaged) patients become intolerant of heat. If the body gets too hot then it cannot lose heat through the skin (because it has no blood supply) and the core temperature increases. The only way the body can compensate for this is by switching off the thyroid gland (which is responsible for the level of metabolic activity in the body and hence heat generation) and so one gets a compensatory underactive thyroid. This alone worsens the problems of fatigue.

As I have said, if I weren't affected by this poison, I would be fascinated by the subject matter.

As an IBMer, I kept a sign on my desk in place of a name plaque; it read "THINK!". That, I feel, is what we all (medics included) need to do. Some of the best input I received while pursuing a real livelihood came from people who had no background in computer science. Their input was always based on common sense and derived from input they reportedly "couldn't possibly understand"... B.S.!!

WE are NOT hamstrung by the limitations of scientific dogma or impossibility thinking, and we MUST soldier on! WE ARE OUR OWN BEST HOPE!

Brooks

[Biologist]

Good post all the way around, Brooks.

Interesting quote too.

When I have time I believe I will modify "my theory" a bit.

Biologist

[Brian C.]

A hypothesis both plausible and testable, based on sound theory it would seem.

Personal update: The improvement continues "coincidental" with taking d-ribose again and more than doubling the quantity taken from around 5g per diem to at around 12. Back to where I was over 2 months ago. Such a relief, I can go up stairs again without nagging pains in the chest and arms and wobbly legs. And no breathlessness!

So, current regime is:

900mg CoQ10
15g l-carnitine
12g d-ribose (will increase to 15 when new supply arrives)
15g magnesium ascorbate

spread over 3 doses daily.

Plus the usual other "goodies" like krill oil & astaxanthin.

(7 years on Zocor, 10 on Lipitor max dose, 21 months off. No neuropathy. ongoing CFS-type symptoms. Blocked LDA for 22 years)

Now I need to get my sleep pattern re-established.

PS For those in the UK the most economical source of d-ribose I have found, with 1kg @ 45 pounds including postage, is

*http://www.blissfulfoods.webeden.co.uk/#/dribose/4529154557

Brian.

[Brian C.]

As a rider, this morning my wife remarked that my feet were no longer blue but pink! This is just 24 hours after doubling my intake of d-ribose.
Heart failure thwarted?

Brian.

[cjbrooksjc]

Let's certainly hope so. Blue feet are not good unless you're a booby (the bird).

Brooks

[Brian C.]

There are certainly times when I act like one


Brian.

[Biologist]

Good hyperlink. Long, but good. Includes a discussion of EDTA.

*http://www.newswithviews.com/Howenstine/james23.htm

Brian, have you gotten a chance to read the book on Fluoride yet? I notice that it is advertised on the URL above. I know that one is excellent, so I am inclined to order more of the books that appear there as well.

Good to see a major drug company (Eli Lilly) busted today for over a billion dollars on the evening news. Doctors do get their medical advice from convicted felons:

*http://www.indystar.com/article/20090116/BUSINESS03/901160353/1003/BUSINESS

Biologist

[Brian C.]

Good link! Pretty exhaustive.

I've got the Fluoride book Biologist but I haven't had the energy to do any serious reading for some time now. I've got Gary Taube's on the pile too.
This time last year I was reading a lot more

Regarding the Eli Lilly business. Off-label sales are an all too common feature of Pharma marketing. They just take the fines on the chin, keep it quiet and carry on as before.

By the way, a couple of years back I read a book by an ex-Pfizer executive who blew the whistle on such a shennanigan but I can't find it on my shelves or on the internet. It was called something like "Confessions of a Pharma Hitman" and the chap had a Swedish name.
Ring any bells?

Hope the plea by that cohort of FDA scientists to your incoming President doesn't fall on deaf ears...

*http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123142562104564381.html

Brian.

[Brian C.]

Latest personal update, 23 months post-Lipitor:

I have learned not to go without d-ribose, nor to sample cheap CoQ10. Since getting back to Kaneka CoQ10 (900mg daily) and upping my d-ribose to 12+g I'm the best I've been for some time. Just the familiar old angina of exertion I've lived with for 20+ years. I've even started reading again!

And nursed my wife through 'flu while avoiding it myself, thanks, I am sure, to the naturally high cholesterol level that always protected me in the past.


Brian.

[Brian C.]

Well, 26 months now and my CFS symptoms seem slowly to be getting worse. Even light effort brings on angina, wobbly legs and disorientation.
Getting out and about less.

I'm still waiting on delivery of the FIR sauna.

I contacted my GP the other day regarding having the relevent blood tests for mitochondrial damage done, as available from Dr Myhill, but no response forthcoming. Unfortunately my private endocrinologist is retiring next month. Perhaps when my wife has retired this summer I should visit Dr Myhill in Wales with her.

*http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/article.cfm?id=381

Hey-ho and so it goes....


Brian.